home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2021, 01:56 PM   #201
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
We’ve been using mostly CAN control, but that too has its limitations.
We’re transitioning to using a VCU (a micro squirt would even work) to just send a RPM command to the motor for accel, and this signal is based upon inputs from a bunch of other sensors.

Braking performance and feedback is a pain to tune. As well as the transition from throttle-coast-brake.
I’m currently helping someone with a e-dirtbike build and we’ve been all over the place for a control strategy. Lots of tuning, lots of testing, lots of thinking.

It’s hard when you want a performance EV to behave like the ICE version in some cases, but then be full hulk mode EV power in others.
exactly. Thats my thoughts on the hybrid controller I'm getting set up. Get the transitions right and its smooth and driveable, get em wrong and lock em off letting off the throttle.

Basically utilizing a 3-4 axis table for setting torque command based on a set of variables. DIY Aem VCU using an MS2, Microsquirt, and potentially an arduino CAN interpreter.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep View Post
Build it, break it, build what broke stronger, lather, rinse, repeat.

The Build Thread
SVEA - PUSHROD TURBO!

Last edited by cwdodson88; 06-16-2021 at 02:03 PM..
cwdodson88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 01:59 PM   #202
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
But why is it you cannot help the EVers here to build a better more efficient motor?
Because 0.000001% of making an EV is the motor winding.
Who gives a f*ck if you can wind a motor? How many times have I had to rewind an electric motor in my entire life.... not a single time!

How much does it cost to build an electric motor, quantity 1 of a custom design that will work in a car? I want a full cost breakdown in a BOM for a reply.

It's all about designing a SYSTEM that works together, but you're too focused on just one small part of that system to even see what the rest needs to do.

You're all caught up on motor efficiencies and HP of a motor design that wouldn't even be used in a car due to low torque outputs. You're getting the HP figures from RPM, that's not going to work well in a car. A drone, sure. A small go-kart... maybe if there is a huge reduction gearbox.

You're going to need a rotor diameter of ~6-12" to get enough torque, unless you're also going to build a custom 40:1 reduction box (helloooo parasitic losses and cash machine going burrrrrrrrrrrrt like a A10).
__________________
Cult Person. Pissing in your Kool-Aid.
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:00 PM   #203
hk 40
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: RTP, North Carolina
Default

VB242
Are just here for ad hominoid cheerleading or are you gonna tell them why they are delivering the wrong information about an IC? because you yet to add anything technical or material in this thread. Its almost like a conversation for grown folks you should see your way out of because you don't know a thing about any of this.
hk 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:01 PM   #204
hk 40
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: RTP, North Carolina
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
Because 0.000001% of making an EV is the motor winding.
Who gives a f*ck if you can wind a motor? How many times have I had to rewind an electric motor in my entire life.... not a single time!

How much does it cost to build an electric motor, quantity 1 of a custom design that will work in a car? I want a full cost breakdown in a BOM for a reply.

It's all about designing a SYSTEM that works together, but you're too focused on just one small part of that system to even see what the rest needs to do.

You're all caught up on motor efficiencies and HP of a motor design that wouldn't even be used in a car due to low torque outputs. You're getting the HP figures from RPM, that's not going to work well in a car. A drone, sure. A small go-kart... maybe if there is a huge reduction gearbox.

You're going to need a rotor diameter of ~6-12" to get enough torque, unless you're also going to build a custom 40:1 reduction box (helloooo parasitic losses and cash machine going burrrrrrrrrrrrt like a A10).

Thank you for this that says it all. No answer about the chip. The motor is the least significant thing in an ev and you've never wound one. Now how is that not about the most overcite about an ev ever posted in the world there in bold letters. You will not find any concurrence for that or that lack of exposure to real ev design to anyone but assemblers.

Later
hk 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:01 PM   #205
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwdodson88 View Post
exactly. Thats my thoughts on the hybrid controller I'm getting set up. Get the transitions right and its smooth and driveable, get em wrong and lock em off letting off the throttle.

Who needs brakes when you have regen currents at 70% of full chooch
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:03 PM   #206
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
Thank you for this that says it all. No answer about the chip. The motor is the least significant thing in an ev and youve never wound one.

Later
I'm still waiting on my cost estimate to build a motor that would work.
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:05 PM   #207
woodenpudden
lacks goats
 
woodenpudden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Princess Anne, MD
Default

Thank you Bob Culberrbob and cwdodson for the breakdown <3
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMFWallace View Post

Flunt delivers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Got my second dose yesterday, after a few hours I felt horrible, I imagine the only thing that feels worse is driving a 7/900
woodenpudden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:06 PM   #208
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
Thank you for this that says it all. No answer about the chip. The motor is the least significant thing in an ev and you've never wound one. Now how is that not about the most overcite about an ev ever posted in the world there in bold letters. You will not find any concurrence or that lack of exposure to anyone but assemblers.

Later
There is more to a EV motor design than just it's windings.
You do know this correct?

There's also more design aspects that go into a vehicle than just a HP and Torque number, correct?
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:07 PM   #209
hk 40
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: RTP, North Carolina
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
I'm still waiting on my cost estimate to build a motor that would work.
A cost is free for me or anybody with the skill set because they just rewind the existing machine and reduce neatly half it losses. NDA's on your own designs really now. You should stop.
hk 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:14 PM   #210
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
There is more to a EV motor design than just it's windings.
You do know this correct?

There's also more design aspects that go into a vehicle than just a HP and Torque number, correct?
Especially if you want something that will run 10s all day. Do 100 passes with a dual warp9 and watch those slips go from 10-11-12-13-14-15 as you melt all of it air cooled godliness
cwdodson88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:18 PM   #211
hk 40
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: RTP, North Carolina
Default

Who do you serve when you post gross overcite about drive design or an IC here? but your own need to to be right? Do you notice I dont have to lie to the forum or its members to debate here. So if you are the light when does it shine on some truth. I mean You here telling the forum the MOTOR is the most insignificant part of an EV. REALLY that's some great information being passed along here at this point. The fiero has been actually getting faster sir. You just change brushes and turn the commutator to get right back in the game but I guess if you are no machinist that presents a real challenge?
hk 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:21 PM   #212
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
A cost is free for me or anybody with the skill set because they just rewind the existing machine and reduce neatly half it losses.
That's cool that you don't mind rewinding a motor with larger diameter wire.
I'm not going to do that on a design that's going to be thousands (or 10s of thousands) of units per year....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
NDA's on your own designs really now.
I do contract engineering, under NDA. I design, build, and test the designs with a small team. These jobs are contracted out by larger companies because we can go start to finish with a vehicle prototype in 4-6 months, instead of 2-4 years like their internal teams.

We're basically roaming engineers for hire that work on extremely aggressive time lines, get paid, and then move on.
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:21 PM   #213
VB242
Beep beep zip tang
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Right Coast
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
VB242
Are just here for ad hominoid cheerleading or are you gonna tell them why they are delivering the wrong information about an IC? because you yet to add anything technical or material in this thread. Its almost like a conversation for grown folks you should see your way out of because you don't know a thing about any of this.
And you cannot read thread titles or the OP's original questions, there is nothing there about winding motors or using low hp controllers where they don't belong. Also the TRS80 Color Computer was a better machine than your flimsy Commodore. Again nobody cares about who you know or that you can wind an electric motor, at all. You don't impress any one here. Sorry about your tiny manhood.
__________________
Deviant Volvo collector/cat herder.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:24 PM   #214
hk 40
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: RTP, North Carolina
Default

Who said anything about large wire? Thats a small motor your looking at. You don't know multistranding is how you negate skin effect. You never want to run a large mono wire especially at these seen amperages. You know its one helluva skillset to be going into the EV age with dont hate coz you cannot do it. It will pay me very well in industry so who cares about the turbobricks way. Mine brings dividends in.


And 242 since you read only what you want to and not everything that's said I'll point his 2-3k budget ou for you again . Do u see that while you aren't even in the technical debate and are providing nothing but clownish post here. I suppose you cannot read he want every suggestion so that includes HK buy you have none for him so why are you talking to me?

Last edited by hk 40; 06-16-2021 at 02:30 PM..
hk 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:29 PM   #215
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
I'm still waiting on my cost estimate to build a motor that would work.
Cant detail a BOM for you, but I can say that yanking the guts from a leaf, modifying a few things, and using some clever machining on a lathe, and manual 3axis with clever fixtures, you can build a 3-500nm machine that can be controlled by either a sevcon gen4, or pm150dx with a dc bus voltage of 350v. At 600v usable peak torque can be made to a shaft speed of 5k, with peak shaft speeds near 10k, be careful using the leaf gearbox tho, the gears in those are only able to cope with about 10-11k on the pinion without addressing some of the metallurgy issues, and replacing bearings. You’ll also want to use a dry-ish sump system to keep the oil from adding drag to the mix. Frothy oil is no bueno.
cwdodson88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:32 PM   #216
hk 40
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: RTP, North Carolina
Default

You said a leaf I didn't say that and well who cares if a motor is only of about .0000% importance in an EV.

HUH? is the motor very important or not? now run into your own ridiculous walls ****ting on the forum telling them a bunch of bull**** is what you are doing.
hk 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:35 PM   #217
Stiggy Pop
Board Member
 
Stiggy Pop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Granville, MA
Default

I feel like we are watching someone have some sort of personal breakdown in real-time, it's a little stressful.
__________________
'79 242
943 pickup
Stiggy Pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:39 PM   #218
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
You said a leaf I didn't say that and well who cares if a motor is only of about .0000% importance in an EV.

HUH? is the motor very important or not? now run into your own ridiculous walls ****ting on the forum telling them a bunch of bull**** is what you are doing.
It would help if you quoted the people you are responding too. I'm mostly confused a this point.
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:42 PM   #219
VB242
Beep beep zip tang
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Right Coast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
You said a leaf I didn't say that and well who cares if a motor is only of about .0000% importance in an EV.

HUH? is the motor very important or not? now run into your own ridiculous walls ****ting on the forum telling them a bunch of bull**** is what you are doing.
Again you are so full of yourself, you cannot read a simple post, he said motor winding is .000001% of creating an EV not that the motor is .000001% of creating an EV. Also I'm in charge of a fleet of 3 phase powered equipment from 5-350hp, I do not need to know how to wind those motors or how the inside of the soft start works to operate and maintain this equipment, I just need the of number of the soft start manufacturer and how to use a megger. And again the Commodore 64 was trash.

Last edited by VB242; 06-16-2021 at 02:47 PM..
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:44 PM   #220
cwdodson88
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Dalles, Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
You said a leaf I didn't say that and well who cares if a motor is only of about .0000% importance in an EV.

HUH? is the motor very important or not? now run into your own ridiculous walls ****ting on the forum telling them a bunch of bull**** is what you are doing.
I think he expressed “that would work” with some level of clarity.

I have stripped, and rebirthed a couple current market EV powertrains. Removing some failpoint components and adding in advantages to the point where they reliably make 4x the OEMs advertised ratings.
cwdodson88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:47 PM   #221
hk 40
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: RTP, North Carolina
Default

You said I leaf I didn't say that and well who cares if a motor is only of about .0000% importance in an EV.

HUH?

Please tell me with a statement like that why I or anyone else with their own brain should spend another second here?


I wont because that one statement shows the level of inanity this has come to.... if the blatant lies about the IC didnt already. Im gotta put that one in signature . Its a turbobricks classic.

I gotta go we can argue later about this car that never being built. You guys dont know bs when you see it. WOW.... you must not be aware of how much more is involved with using hydrogen fuel cells....who is at that that will struggle here. I'm not gonna make a fool outta myself for talkers sake you go right ahead....
hk 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:50 PM   #222
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
You said I leaf I didn't say that and well who cares if a motor is only of about .0000% importance in an EV.

HUH?
I’m guessing you’ve never had to do systems level design or engineering.
Have you had to work with a large team to develop a single product in a collaborative work environment?
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 02:52 PM   #223
hk 40
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: RTP, North Carolina
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
I’m guessing you’ve never had to do systems level design or engineering.
Have you had to work with a large team to develop a single product in a collaborative work environment?

would the large team make the motor any more significant than what you posted. Now you8 know its a stupid statement are you really gonna try to argue it by asking me a totally unrelated question. Man just stop. It was totally ignorant to say but you did and now its done. And of course Mercedes does no engineering collaborations.

Can I be excused now b4 this get any more ridiculous?? we produce a product that is the collaboration of 3 full shifts and about 1700 personnel per.

What will help is if u stop posting un truths and the most ridiculous things like that so I wont have to quote them. Thanks
hk 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 03:01 PM   #224
VB242
Beep beep zip tang
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Right Coast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hk 40 View Post
would the large team make the motor any more significant than what you posted. Now you8 know its a stupid statement are you really gonna try to argue it by asking me a totally unrelated question. Man just stop. It was totally ignorant to say but you did and now its done. And of course Mercedes does no engineering collaborations.

Can I be excused now b4 this get any more ridiculous?? we produce a product that is the collaboration of 3 full shifts and about 1700 personnel per.

What will help is if u stop posting un truths and the most ridiculous things like that so I wont have to quote them. Thanks
You are free to leave at any time and most assuredly will not be missed in the least, other than maybe for the entertainment value of your caffeine fueled narcissistic manic diatribes.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2021, 03:04 PM   #225
hk 40
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: RTP, North Carolina
Default

And that's the breadth your contribution to the technical aspects here. I was speaking to the other people that actually have stake in the technical assertions here u really don't provide anything but poor comedy as that entertainment. I mean its pretty clear to me this is going nowhere and that you have absolutely nothing helpful to add here. I thought that maybe there was a few machinist here and some members up to the challenge. I misjudged the abilities here and for that I'm truly sorry. You are correct my information is not suited for here so I will shut up. They dont have any interest in expanding there skillset. Try to tech you how to wind a better motor to improve you already existing creations. You dont realize the tech is patented which means im sharing it for educational purposes. U CANT PRODUCE IT UNLESS YOU PAY DR GERLING or ABB but you can have all the fun you want with one offs and your owns personal equipment. You're noses are up in the air for know good reason as I'm trying to help YOU! These arguments are stupid. You talk about production in a DIY ev thread. There's no point talking to you are terrible students that think teaching and engineering student he can build his own drive. He will never make the big bucks in this profession if he wont take on design challenges but I know nothing so that's very well.


Hubert

Last edited by hk 40; 06-16-2021 at 03:26 PM..
hk 40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:04 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.