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Old 11-01-2021, 04:37 AM   #1
SkeTchy-MechAniC
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Default Volvo 240 body mounted rear sway bar.

Goodday to you guys!

It's time for a little project again. Bought a nice 244, Put in an nice 8K rpm ITB engine (it's on the forum) And now decided i needed an LSD. While under the car prying out the old diff my eye felt once again on the flimsy stock rear swaybar. Since it's further equipped with a 25mm front, springs, upgraded shocks and all poly bushings it's a shame to have almost no rear sway control. Sure, i could just order a thick bar bolt it on and get going but somehow the rear setup seems a bit like an emergency solution from Volvo at the time. Wouldn't it be better to mount a swaybar in a way it's actually connected to the boddy, like on the front?

Searched the net for this but there ain't that much info on it. Did steal this picture that shows you guys of what i'm thinking about doing.

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Old 11-01-2021, 11:29 AM   #2
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you want a small rear bar. dont waste time with a big one on these cars.
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Old 11-01-2021, 11:45 AM   #3
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mounting a sway bar like that may be helpful if it allows you to run a generic "adjustable" sway bar with multiple end link mounting positions. There are plenty of people on this forum who have put in the heavy work and have concluded that in an otherwise well setup car you'll go faster using the smallest rear bar that you can get away with.
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Old 11-01-2021, 04:49 PM   #4
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To answer your actual question, yes, it is much better to have the sway bar mounted to the chassis for two reasons. One, you reduce the unsprung weight which has a significant effect. Two, you now have the ability to chassis tune quickly by merely moving the end link position on the sway bar.
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Old 11-01-2021, 04:54 PM   #5
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140s have a setup like that, I think. No reason to run that much rear bar, though. Better to work at adding grip up front than subtracting grip at the rear.
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Old 11-01-2021, 04:56 PM   #6
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If you just want a project, you could certainly build something. This is the only instance I can recall seeing of a chassis mounted rear bar on a 240. It appears like it's adjustable, but I'm not sure about cockpit-adjustable. Maybe just something they could adjust if it were going to be wet v. dry.

In this pic with the bar moved towards the back of the car, the arms are as short as they can get, so the stiffest setting. if the bar were moved toward the front of the car, the arms would be much longer and it would soften up a lot.



Couple more shots of that yellow car here: https://pbase.com/towerymt/240_racing&page=13

(I don't remember where these pics came from. Somewhere on the internet 15+yr ago.)
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Old 11-01-2021, 05:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by redblockpowered View Post
140s have a setup like that, I think. No reason to run that much rear bar, though. Better to work at adding grip up front than subtracting grip at the rear.
Stock 140s don't have rear sway bars.

7/8" Addco rear bars run bottom of the spring perch to the other bottom of the spring perch using ~4" x 6" 1/4" thick steel plates.

IPD 140 rear bars are U bolted to the axle and the end links run forward and are anchored in the floor with reinforcement plates under the lower rear bench seat.
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Old 11-01-2021, 05:50 PM   #8
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IPD 140 rear bars are U bolted to the axle and the end links run forward and are anchored in the floor with reinforcement plates under the lower rear bench seat.
This is what I was thinking of.
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Old 11-01-2021, 05:53 PM   #9
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Asking out of legitimate curiosity: What driving or handling characteristics are you looking to achieve with this?

Most folks I know seem to advocate for smaller rear sways or none at all.
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Old 11-01-2021, 06:40 PM   #10
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This is what I was thinking of.
To the lower left of the tennis balls you can see the IPD 140 rear sway bar setup.

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Old 11-01-2021, 06:49 PM   #11
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Sorry but I'm jacking this thread because of the tennis balls. What is the idea behind packing your spring with balls? I've never seen that.
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Old 11-01-2021, 06:56 PM   #12
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Sorry but I'm jacking this thread because of the tennis balls. What is the idea behind packing your spring with balls? I've never seen that.
Tennessee Overloads for a day from page 13 of my Lumber Wagon Version VII build thread.
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Old 11-01-2021, 07:30 PM   #13
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I've seen footballs in there before on a Jeep lol, probably cost more than the airbag that is made to go inside the spring.
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Old 11-01-2021, 07:37 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 2turbotoys View Post
I've seen footballs in there before on a Jeep lol, probably cost more than the airbag that is made to go inside the spring.


On the bright side it / I didn't sag another set of stock springs as I had already swapped the IPD overloads to the 82 GLT and the turbo's springs onto the 145 as evidenced by the 240 upper perches.
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Old 11-01-2021, 07:55 PM   #15
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I thought about doing that but decided i like the way it handles with stiffer springs and less bar.
But for inspiration, here is a corolla with hollow adjustable cobbling action.

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Old 11-01-2021, 09:54 PM   #16
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1963-1970 Ford Falcon Rear Sway Bar Kit, 7/8 Inch

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Old 11-01-2021, 11:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
you want a small rear bar. dont waste time with a big one on these cars.
Im no race at driver would you mind explaining? In my head stiffer sway bar would help keep the tires planted but what do I know.
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Old 11-01-2021, 11:20 PM   #18
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I’m no race at driver would you mind explaining? In my head stiffer sway bar would help keep the tires planted but what do I know.
Too much rear bar makes the car 'push' or go sideways instead of around the corner.
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Old 11-01-2021, 11:24 PM   #19
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Oversteer = lack of rear grip
Understeer = lack of front grip

If a stiffer rear bar increases likelihood of oversteer, what is it doing to the level of grip in the rear of the car?
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Old 11-01-2021, 11:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwood Chair View Post
Too much rear bar makes the car 'push' or go sideways instead of around the corner.
Is there somewhere I can read more into 240s suspension geometry and handling, reading elsewhere I saw just a straight up suspension lowering job is nothing more than cosmetic without proper geometry adjustments and Id like to look more into it so Im not chasing problems when I start doing suspension work
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Old 11-02-2021, 12:01 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Radtap View Post
Is there somewhere I can read more into 240s suspension geometry and handling, reading elsewhere I saw just a straight up suspension lowering job is nothing more than cosmetic without proper geometry adjustments and Id like to look more into it so Im not chasing problems when I start doing suspension work
Whelp you're reading the right forum, look around ...
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Old 11-02-2021, 09:55 AM   #22
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I run a 1" rear bar on my V8 wagon Custom made by IPD 30+ years ago [made to clear the dual exhaust], stock front bar. The rear bar made the car handle much better, remember the car is a wagon, top heavy. The car is very neutral, Koni sport adj shocks at all four corners, lowered 2". As far as mounting a rear sway bar I have seen body mounted bars, and axle mounted bars, they all do the same thing. Body mounts reduce un sprung weight, axle mounts add weight
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Old 11-02-2021, 11:54 AM   #23
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less roll will always make a car feel more confidence-inspiring. Same with more damping.
Too much rear bar on soft springs will lift the inside tire on exit, something volvos gleefully exhibit. Same with too much damping.
Watch an autocross vid of a stock class BMW. The ones with a big front bar and konis cranked full counter-clockwise lift the front tires in an odd way. But they are almost always open diff cars, and they need the traction on turn exits. And early rules only allowed changing the front bar.

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Too much rear bar makes the car 'push' or go sideways instead of around the corner.
"push" is understeer in dirt track talk.
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Old 11-02-2021, 12:36 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by mikep View Post
I thought about doing that but decided i like the way it handles with stiffer springs and less bar.
But for inspiration, here is a corolla with hollow adjustable cobbling action.

How's it handle (loaded question)?

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Originally Posted by mikep View Post
less roll will always make a car feel more confidence-inspiring. Same with more damping.
Too much rear bar on soft springs will lift the inside tire on exit, something volvos gleefully exhibit. Same with too much damping.
Getting that inside rear to stay down was a challenge


here's where I messed with more rear springs (includes tender spring) to get more supported droop travel. I also softened the rear spring rate from, I believe, 325lb to 250lb (main) at the same time. It did help with rear grip(traction)
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...22#post3296622

No rear bar on my car at this time. I pretty much dumped the rear bar when I stopped autocrossing on street tires and got enough camber on the front (at least -2) to get it to turn in. On ~0.8 deg. negative camber with stock-diameter front springs, and street tires, I had a big rear bar and the car was loose, but turned, and was fast when I got it right (fast relative to itself, but I sometimes beat faster cars with slower drivers)

The final iteration never got close to sorted out. Probably needed to look at roll centers or something to try and keep the car on the ground


(this was slightly off camber, so helping the car lift off a bit more than just flat steady state cornering)

Quote:
Watch an autocross vid of a stock class BMW. The ones with a big front bar and konis cranked full counter-clockwise lift the front tires in an odd way. But they are almost always open diff cars, and they need the traction on turn exits. And early rules only allowed changing the front bar.
Looks like this:





-------------------------

One comment I still remember from mikeP was about using a big rear bar with a welded diff, to get it to turn. With a locked diff, you're not worried as much about hiking the inside tire because you'll still have drive off the corner. But if you get to the point of overpowering your tire(s), then you'll need to reconsider.

-------------------------

Drive it first and see what it needs. I made changes based on results & testing, having taken a baseline from other proven setups. Anthony Hyde's page if it's still around had a lot of good info on it about 240 suspension.
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Old 11-02-2021, 12:53 PM   #25
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While not directly 240 related, this is required reading IMO on suspension setup.
It is dated but a lot of the fundamentals have not changed.
https://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Your.../dp/0912656468
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