B230FT sheetmetal intake (2016-2021 bump)

Dude,
Intercooler piping is the easy part. I don't understand what you would be going through the trouble of fabbing the new mani for if you are using stock intercooler as well.

What angle is the edge of your plenum compared to the runners?

Turbeam said:

Nathaninwa said:

On the second pic, you can see using a stock IC all you have to do is use a 45* elbow and your butter.

Let me know if you guys that are intersted in buying like the design, would like to see anything different, or keep rallying the way that I am.

Isn't it strange how the same manifold can look so different between 2 photos! I think it looks potentially nice in the first photo (given the mock-up end), but don't like it so much in the second!

There seems to be a greater vertical height difference between the throttle body and the runner of No.1 cylinder in the second photo (more side on) than there is in the first, and the impression it gives me is that the angle of the end is too steep and the turn of the bend a little tight?

If the angle of the throttle body can't itself be changed without effecting the line to the I/C, could the throttle body by pulled further forward in the bay to reduce this angle? I think it would also 'look' better with a more gentle taper at the plenum immediately post-TB leading into the more angular end.

I tend to go along with the 'gas inertia through the throttle body' theory, but like most of the comments here this is just my seat-of-the-pants guessing really without any kind of basis in fact, and who can say how well it will work in reality as-is with no testing having been done at this stage.


The rest of the actual fabrication work looks pretty ****** good to me.

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CNGBrick said:

That's a dangerous piece of advice in the wrong hands.

Anyone wishing to pressure test a manifold should know the following:
1) Pressurized air is dangerous. The device under test should be placed in an enclosure of sufficient strength to contain any pieces that may fly off.
2) You do not need to see a device being pressure tested with compressed air! The enclosure should be fully enclosed. No peeking when under pressure!
3) A hydrostatic test is much safer, either hydraulic oil or water. Make sure there are no air pockets or you are back to the pressurized air scenario.

Richard

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Especially if you made your intake from ninja stars.

Captain Bondo said:

FWIW, especially with material that thin, the welds should look pretty much the same on the inside as they do on the outside. The weld should be convex on both sides. That one is obviously thinner than the base material.

I would also give an intake a good dozen or so pressure cycles at 60 psi before ever installing it.

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it was 11 gauge stuff, and we did a few at 40psi before we put it on to run.

Either way you are saying we need to do what to repair it properly?

ok...im going to be running a fmic along with a header....turbo and my intake. my hole purpose is to have a intake that bolts on uses all stock gear. im aiming for a bolt on deal for the masses. i know most tbers will have ic installed already but not my point for a production build. keeping it bolt on as possible. plus it puts the tb in a great location for a mint fmic.

mike a few questions. whats machine did you guys use to weld it up? whats was the grades of alum that got used for plate...elbows and your pipe? what grade of filler and what size? what was the DIG control set to on the machine? did you buff or prep the alum before welding? and your plenum is bigger.....was a brace used?

these are important questions for the end results......and on the end of your beads where the weld stops did you guys fill in what i call an asshole or did you leave that small crater? thats a crack starter right there?

did it feel like you had more power or what?

We did have the stock brace hooked up, All of the other welding details I will let the one who did the welding tell ya.

Otherwise 15psi with this intake felt about as fast/powerful as 20psi did with the stocker, the car pulled worlds harder once boost came in, and throttle response was crazy better. Either way it felt easy as fast if not faster at 15psi than it did when it blew down 301whp @20psi

I had a bit of an overboost yesterday morning on the way to work and boost went to 21psi(something about colder weather makes more boost) and it spun both tires from a30 roll to around 65+ when i let off, the power just keeps coming strong

how was the drive home last night?

Car did not like to get into boost but otherwise cruise afr's were perfect, when I came to a stop it was hard to keep it idling or from reving to high and wanting togo

11 gauge is less than 1/8". So as I said before, to fix it correctly your welds need 100% penetration. It should look like a weld on the inside too. Not a crack.

HMMM i want one

Captain Bondo said:

11 gauge is less than 1/8". So as I said before, to fix it correctly your welds need 100% penetration. It should look like a weld on the inside too. Not a crack.

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i'll work on 'em TIG is definatly something that i am not great at, but i am getting better with each project

HOT and FAST on aluminum. Jam filler in as fast as you can. Lots of it.

I am running probably 130-150amps on 11 gauge and using 1/8" filler and going FAST.

Make it keyhole/sag to the point you can really see you are metling it all the way through and fusing the 2 pieces.

That's why you need the speed, it becomes a mess quickly.

If you are traveling at steel-like speeds you are probably cold.

Start your own thread guys....this is Hijackin! jking

Anyways, I got the new tb blend done today and mocked up on the plenum....I like it, but not for production reasons.....Im going to be super sneaky and go back to the design paper and create a new plenum wall so the tb transition will be easier...will be the same basic shape, just a little easier to fab up is all.

I moved the TB forward a half inch and moved it inboard about an inch today thanks from an earlier suggestion....turned out pretty good. So now its weld time and off to the mill for fuel stuff.


More updates soon. If anyone is intersted in buying a manifold of this design, and are serious about it, please PM me so I can kind of get a number count. Im trying to keep the price in the 600 range. All depends on the fab and machine time.

what size tb is that?

i like it, if you can produce them for a low cost who care's if it's not "ideal", it's GOT to be better than oem based on plenum and runner diameter

Its a 960 TB, measures 2.625 which is almost 67mm or so. I could really intall any tb tho.

olov said:

what size tb is that?

i like it, if you can produce them for a low cost who care's if it's not "ideal", it's GOT to be better than oem based on plenum and runner diameter

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looks awsome!

Wow.. is the TB really only half an inch further forward now?... it looks much better like that imo.

CNGBrick said:

That's a dangerous piece of advice in the wrong hands.

Anyone wishing to pressure test a manifold should know the following:
1) Pressurized air is dangerous. The device under test should be placed in an enclosure of sufficient strength to contain any pieces that may fly off.
2) You do not need to see a device being pressure tested with compressed air! The enclosure should be fully enclosed. No peeking when under pressure!
3) A hydrostatic test is much safer, either hydraulic oil or water. Make sure there are no air pockets or you are back to the pressurized air scenario.

Richard

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I'd have to agree with all of the above for any pressure testing, but would question the need to run to such high a high test pressure as 60psi at all.

The force over the surface are of the flat sections of that manifold @60psi would be pretty huge. Even if the welds had held I'd have been surprised if it hadn't distorted hugely and gone round/ convex with that material thickness.

Is there no kind of safety valve/ blow off of any kind installed in the system? As the welds have probably been the weakness and let go at around a 'normal' boost pressure, but one might be worth considering and set to just above maximum boost to give protection if there was a failed wastegate actuator or similar problem producing overboost into that sort of manifold.

By 'bracing' I think he meant some kind of structural reinforcement such as ribs or section changes rather than a physical support to the manifold.

On Nathaninwa's new manifold the welded angled joints should add some rigidity to the plenum walls to help prevent distortion.

Turbeam said:

I'd have to agree with all of the above for any pressure testing, but would question the need to run to such high a high test pressure as 60psi at all.

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60 is low. That is a 300% safety factor if you expect a max pressure if 20psi. An SF of 3 is not high, especially on a new aluminum part that you KNOW will fatigue.

Magnus motorsports test theirs to 150psi static and 300 burst.

The force over the surface are of the flat sections of that manifold @60psi would be pretty huge. Even if the welds had held I'd have been surprised if it hadn't distorted hugely and gone round/ convex with that material thickness.

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Wanna bet? I'll make a video. And then when my manifold explodes/ballons and launches aluminum shrapnel into my brain you can all laugh.

Is there no kind of safety valve/ blow off of any kind installed in the system? As the welds have probably been the weakness and let go at around a 'normal' boost pressure, but one might be worth considering and set to just above maximum boost to give protection if there was a failed wastegate actuator or similar problem producing overboost into that sort of manifold.

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OEM manifolds don't need them. No reason a fabricated one should.
Or, you could do the appropriately calculations and testing, and be a competent fabricator and not make every six times more complicated than it needs to be.

Don't add failsafe devices as an attempt to compensate for poorly built parts. Build them correctly.

Your manifold is vey beautyfull now!!! I like it! Awesome!

All this work you saw over the last week I had done to the first design before I posted, I just thought you guys would like to see the progress along the way and how I get from nothing to something.

I agree with the Captain finally...if the fabricator is compentent of there work, the correct materials and the correct weld prodecures are followed there is no need for internal bracing. I did mention that to TLAO but I was refering to the external stiffer support from the block to plenum. He has a big one that needs some support.

I have been Tig welding for 16 years now and own a Syncrowave 250 here at my house, I just picked up too the new millermatic 211 with the sweet spool gun.

Talking about pressure testing, how about full line pressure at 140psi! This alum tank is for airstorage on my 4 wheel drive to air up the tires after a crawl. its standard 6 inch pipe wth 1/4 alum ends that I convexed and simply ran a corner to corner weld....been holding air since Feb 09 and gets the snaut beat out of it on the trail.

There is also a pic of my alum beadlocks for the same truck. The 3/8 alum plate is welded to the OD of the original rim.....totally relying on my weld to hold the tire on and hold pressure. if it cracks, I lose air, if it cracks all around, the rings falls off and my wheel is litterally in 2 pcs with the outer bead chillin....

And the last is some copper nickel I do at work for the engine cooling systems....I really enjoy welding that. thats a 1/2 inch base plate to 4 inch od .095 wall tubing.

So proper prep, proper materials, proper filler materials, and proper fab skills all this can be done with no ill effects.


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