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Old 04-26-2020, 04:31 PM   #2301
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Originally Posted by Swedbrick View Post
My next attempt will be creating a -967 bin file with the 951 b230f mapping, and working e-fan control (hopefully)
If you're looking for a B230F bin file with e-fan control, 935 or 933 (I don't remember which) should work fine, rather than editing the whole 967 bin.
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:13 PM   #2302
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If you're looking for a B230F bin file with e-fan control, 935 or 933 (I don't remember which) should work fine, rather than editing the whole 967 bin.
Cool, thanks for the tip, I'll have a look at those!
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Old 04-29-2020, 06:31 AM   #2303
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Alright so I had a look at the XDF files of the 935, the 946 and the 951 ecu once more (933 only offered the simple xdf so it got excluded) and made up the following:

-935 ecu, used with B230FB/FX 130hp engine, google image search: clutch fan
Injector constant 1: 128
Injector constant 4: 3889
Map:


-946 ecu, used with B230F/FD 115hp engine, google image search: clutch fan for F, e-fan for FD
Injector constant 1: 128
Injector constant 4: 3889
Map:


-951 ecu, used with b230F 115hp engine, google image search: clutch fan for F
Injector constant 1: 131
Injector constant 4: 3889
Map:


So from looking at the injector constants and the maps, I decided to go with the 951 ecu mapping since it has been working well with my 530 head, k-cam combo for a while (whilst also offering plenty of fuel as it appears across the table), in the bin file of the 946 ecu. I had a look through the table of both bin files and confirmed correct maf and warm-up tables (they were the same), and pasted the 951 map into the modified 946 bin, I also once more changed the injector constant 4 to 2378 to get the correct scaling for the 350cc ev6 injectors and used the checksum plugin to save before burning the chip.

The car started right up and I confirmed the e-fans working through the test terminal in mode 3, which fires the injectors, moves the IAC and checks both fan speeds. The car runs great and didn't throw codes, so I'm happy, if I get around to confirming afr on a dyno, I'll add that here as well
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:44 PM   #2304
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I can provide you with a newer XDF for the 933 BIN if wanted. It's what we use on the General Leif.

As far as e-fan control goes, what car are you using and what actual ECU?

The factory fuel map in the 935 looks closest to what I run in my 244, except wayyyy too much fuel at high load in the higher RPM columns. You can likely get it to lean out some by revving the engine to redline at each shift but keeping it at light load so it learns, but even easier is leaning it out to start with. Or turning Lamdba correction off and dialing it all in, but that definitely requires a wideband.

Speaking of which, if you reset the computers and run on the dyno, it'll run way rich up top, but if you don't reset your computers, it'll run better at high rpm as it learns... I picked up quite a bit of top end pull above 5,500rpm on my car when it was near stock with an A cam and learned, vs. unlearned.
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Old 04-30-2020, 08:00 AM   #2305
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I can provide you with a newer XDF for the 933 BIN if wanted. It's what we use on the General Leif.
Yes please do, I'd love to take a proper look at that one!

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As far as e-fan control goes, what car are you using and what actual ECU?
It's for my 740, the loom has been scratch built but it's basically a 940 turbo loom with the ecu's moved to the engine bay and the maf put on the other side for an NA application for now, it's also running buchka wasted spark. The actual ECU I'm now using is a 984 casing chipped with a 946 bin file, IIRC the ezk is a 169. I am using the 940 big radiator and e-fan setup with a custom relay setup, which I was able to control with the diagnostic mode on LH with the latest chip, so that should be working.

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The factory fuel map in the 935 looks closest to what I run in my 244, except wayyyy too much fuel at high load in the higher RPM columns. You can likely get it to lean out some by revving the engine to redline at each shift but keeping it at light load so it learns, but even easier is leaning it out to start with. Or turning Lamdba correction off and dialing it all in, but that definitely requires a wideband.

Speaking of which, if you reset the computers and run on the dyno, it'll run way rich up top, but if you don't reset your computers, it'll run better at high rpm as it learns... I picked up quite a bit of top end pull above 5,500rpm on my car when it was near stock with an A cam and learned, vs. unlearned.
Hmm alright, I picked the 951 mapping since it seems to be a bit richer = safer? overall, especially since I run this car hard on track. Any suggestions for approximate values for the higher rev range in the table, from what I was able to find your k13 cam is a bit hotter than the kg004 I'm currently running? I started with a b230k engine so my compression is already up at 1:10.3 so that should be in a similair ballpark.
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Old 04-30-2020, 12:49 PM   #2306
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Nice!

I will try to get on my tuning laptop and show you what I am running right now with my more basic setup(H cam, .032" off the head and .036" headgasket). It has the white-top 16V injectors so your injector scaling may need to change from what I have, but I'll share it later along with the later 933 XDF!

Also something to keep in mind when comparing these maps between the different BINs, the injector constant 1 is changed between them, so that accounts for some of the difference in the main fuel maps. That being said, I haven't tried running a stock 935 and didn't even know about the 946 bins in my 951 or 933 ECUs yet to see how they perform. I just know that with Lamdba off and watching the wideband, I have a map that's more similar to the 935's.
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Old 04-30-2020, 05:41 PM   #2307
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As promised, here's the 933 XDF v.50 attached amongst a bunch of other stuff I'm going to add to my NA tuning how-to thread. I also included my 951 BIN and notes from it stating what the setup is for fun if you'd like to see it.
Attached Files
File Type: zip NA LH2.4 8V + 16V + LH3.1 tuning kit.zip (348.5 KB, 9 views)
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Old 05-01-2020, 08:08 AM   #2308
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Awesome thank you! I'll take a look through it in the weekend to make a new updated bin file!
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Old 05-01-2020, 11:30 AM   #2309
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You're welcome!
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Old 05-01-2020, 12:32 PM   #2310
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Thanks klr142!! got a chance to really look thru this.
For 240 NA use, is it worth playing around with the 5xx series? Or would you stick with 9xx series?
I wanted to try out the 595 bin on my 561 computer and see how it runs. I have personally had good experience with 933 bin on my 937 computer, its what i've been running the past year or so.

Now that I have a good suspension setup, i'll surely dive into this again.
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Old 05-01-2020, 12:55 PM   #2311
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You're welcome! I really liked the way my car drove when I had the 561 in it, but they tend to fail more often and I don't know where mine went... I haven't actually looked at the 595 bin to see what it looks like in comparison to the normal stuff, it was just something I came across when I was looking for some more info on the jetronic website yesterday. Sadly I couldn't find everything I was looking for and couldn't actually open the website on my tuning PC laptop(managed to get to it on my Mac, though??).
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:20 AM   #2312
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Hi klr142,

I am not quite clear about the Ortrich. Is it a programmable ECU that piggyback to car ECU that tuner can tune data specifically to that particular car which is better than changing chip since chip is kind of more mass product that does not fine tune to any specific car? If my understanding is correct, it is a piggyback ECU likes HKS F-CON or unichip. Am I correct?

Thank you,
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:21 AM   #2313
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Hello Bom,
The Ostrich is a small box that has a cable that plugs into your existing ECU where the factory chip would be. It’s a chip emulator, so you can change whatever the effective “chip” is, or the chip’s contents through a USB cable hooked to your computer.
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:52 AM   #2314
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Hi guys.
I planning now some engine tuning: Holset HX30W, log style custom manifold, 4" outlet, another intercooler, 630 cc injectors, 531 ported head with 40 mm exhaust valves, higher CR ~10.0, fuel 93. Purpose is 350 engine HP on not too high boost pressure and fastest spool.
I'm very interested to stay on stock ECU, I have a little experience in tuning chips, but... As I see - I must use wideband lambda for checking my AFR, it's okay. But I can't understand how I'll must tuning fuel maps with TunerPro and Ostrich.
I really enjoyed reading last 30 pages of this thread and that's what I think now.

1. I must disable lambda-regulation
2. I must disable fuel trim for long-term adaptation
3. I must adjust IC4 for ~1600
4. Connect Ostrich and use address hit tracing for finding values and changing it, in same time looking for AFR.

Okay.
Questions.
1. Can I compare on map/graph RPM/AFR? Or I can modify values just manually, when I see something on WBO screen?
2. AFR on 4000 RPM on idle and 4000 RPM on full boost be not same, wright? How I must adjust values in TunerPro for that's RPM? On full boost from 3k to 5k RPM my engine almost rolls very quick and I phisically can't read which AFR I have. And don't forget about some lag, which have wideband controller... That's maybe extension of my first question, but it is.
3. Which AFR should be on another RPM? I google that picture, but without AFR graph in TunerPro I can't adjust values in bin. Again ))



4. Let's imagine all works with LH is done. Ooookay - now it's time for EZK! Or maybe tune EZK first? When I advanced or retarded timing AFR should be change, after EZK again LH? Or how?

What do you think, guys?
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:21 AM   #2315
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Originally Posted by EFbI4 View Post
1. I must disable lambda-regulation
2. I must disable fuel trim for long-term adaptation
3. I must adjust IC4 for ~1600
4. Connect Ostrich and use address hit tracing for finding values and changing it, in same time looking for AFR.
This seems about right for the basic tuning, I understood from klr142 that he observed map location lookup changes when the IC4 was changed, which I still have to confirm since I have yet to get an ostrich. So proceed with care and a wideband!

IC4 for a standard b230ft map is 2443, with 334cc injectors, so for those you would have to scale to IC4 of roughly 1300 if you would scale linearly. Beware of cheap chinese injectors they rarely flow consistently across sets and are commonly not able to flow the full amount, so make sure to check if they are genuine

Tracing on an ostrich is not real time necessarily, it a trick with read requests, which is explained here, so a dyno would be best to allow for stabilization of your values before changing stuff:
http://support.moates.net/data-trace-emulators/

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Originally Posted by EFbI4 View Post
Questions.
1. Can I compare on map/graph RPM/AFR? Or I can modify values just manually, when I see something on WBO screen?
2. AFR on 4000 RPM on idle and 4000 RPM on full boost be not same, wright? How I must adjust values in TunerPro for that's RPM? On full boost from 3k to 5k RPM my engine almost rolls very quick and I phisically can't read which AFR I have. And don't forget about some lag, which have wideband controller... That's maybe extension of my first question, but it is.
3. Which AFR should be on another RPM? I google that picture, but without AFR graph in TunerPro I can't adjust values in bin. Again ))



4. Let's imagine all works with LH is done. Ooookay - now it's time for EZK! Or maybe tune EZK first? When I advanced or retarded timing AFR should be change, after EZK again LH? Or how?
To answer the first two questions as far as I'm qualified, the vertical axis of the fuel tables is calculated load = airflow, knock, throttle sensor and temperature combined, so basically like MAP/VE in other ecu's, the horizontal axis is RPM.

LH only has narrowband detection, and skips that after a certain threshold, basically 2 bits to the ecu from the narrowband controller saying lean, stoic or rich for the idle control. So you are not really able to use afr above this threshold, it's mostly there for emissions/low rpm.

For the third question, at low load you can usually go leaner = lower values in the tabel, at high loads = turbo, go a bit richer. There is no real way to relate the values to afr, they are just a measure of fuel at a certain RPM and airflow measurement, so you'll have to tune by changing the values, observing and moving on. Also take into consideration that modern turbo's spool quick and LH cannot react as quickly as modern ecu's so keep it rich to stay out of trouble since it might add the accel enrich a bit late.

For the fourth question, If you are messing with RPM, change both, as for setting timing, have a look at HP academy, they have a great free tutorial on how to setup timing after a base tune if I recall.

I hope this helps a bit, there are more experienced people on this forum, so this was mostly distilled from what I've read up until now
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