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Old 02-05-2014, 04:46 PM   #1
Jack
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Default 16v head block choices - what to build?

I have a 16v head burning a hole in my wallet and on my shelf. I been thinking that I eventually might trow it into my 245.

which block would you put it into and why
I have:
- b23 engine complete with original 54k miles
- b21ft block with 150k miles - head is off and everything seems to be ok
- b230 (least likely candidate) original still in car almost 300k burns zero oil


also have a 15g matted to a 90 mani

discuss
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:49 PM   #2
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B23 seems like the pick of the litter there. Build it while the B230 keeps the car rolling around for now.

Get that valve relief cutting kit and keep the B23 together.
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:50 PM   #3
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^ my thoughts also
but why not the b21ft? especially if I turbo charge
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:55 PM   #4
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well is this a fun daily car, or street/strip car?
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:01 PM   #5
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car will be/is used for daily.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:05 PM   #6
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^ my thoughts also
but why not the b21ft? especially if I turbo charge

You'd get the great benefits of the chamber design but the intake valves are ssssssooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo close to the edge of the cylinder that you will valve the cylinders 'shrouding" the valves...
Volvo when they did B204s at 88.5mm bore reduced valve size in those heads.. B21 is 92mm but those valve are right at the edge...

Blocks are easy and cheap, why not just get a B23 or B230 and be done?
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:06 PM   #7
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Yeah, where's the pic of a 16V head sitting atop a B21 bore?

To the googles!
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:08 PM   #8
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As JohnV was saying, there's really no way for air to flow around that outer edge of the valves when the cylinder wall is *right there*. So you don't get all the flow the 16V was supposed to give you.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
You'd get the great benefits of the chamber design but the intake valves are ssssssooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo close to the edge of the cylinder that you will valve the cylinders 'shrouding" the valves...
Volvo when they did B204s at 88.5mm bore reduced valve size in those heads.. B21 is 92mm but those valve are right at the edge...

Blocks are easy and cheap, why not just get a B23 or B230 and be done?


I have both see first post

now I understand why not the b21ft
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:56 PM   #10
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thats an interesting way to show what he meant! very cool yet informative pic! i was gonna say b23 block just for the "no replacement for displacement" argument.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
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thats an interesting way to show what he meant! very cool yet informative pic! i was gonna say b23 block just for the "no replacement for displacement" argument.

but that ol' saying is wrong.
The replacement for displacement is BOOST (more CFM, or CC or whatever unit of VOLUME of air literally PUMPED in to the volume the motor would do normally..---Just how did little 1500 F1 cars make a bazillion hp? LOADSA boost AND lots of revs
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:03 PM   #12
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and pneumatically powered valves!
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:02 AM   #13
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b23/21ft are going to require a roundtooth crank gear from knox motorsports, pretty sure its 175$ Just pull the b230 head, cut the reliefs, and throw the 16v head on it. (Assuming you have all of the parts you'll need.)
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:16 PM   #14
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b23/21ft are going to require a roundtooth crank gear from knox motorsports, pretty sure its 175$ Just pull the b230 head, cut the reliefs, and throw the 16v head on it. (Assuming you have all of the parts you'll need.)
I pulled the crank gear from the "donor" b234 engine
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:23 PM   #15
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I pulled the crank gear from the "donor" b234 engine
Pretty sure the crank snout/gear are specific to the B21/B23 forged (almost always) crank. The B230 has a different size snout where the gear mounts. TB lore has it that the B234 crank gear has a bad habit of disassembling itself under load.....hence the stronger versions.

I've got one of those KNOX or YF versions of that B23 crank gear.....if I can find it I will measure the ID. I've also got each version of the crank in my workshop, will check tonight if I remember...
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
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I pulled the crank gear from the "donor" b234 engine
Wont fit on a b21
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:20 PM   #17
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jack buy B230F block, borrow this special tools to drill piston or buy forged rods from RSI- i think its easier, cheaper and more profi for the future.
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:33 PM   #18
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Wont fit on a b21
established that I wont use a b21 engine
options are b23 or b230
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
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jack buy B230F block, borrow this special tools to drill piston or buy forged rods from RSI- i think its easier, cheaper and more profi for the future.
forged rods ... I will do that.
will go with a late model b230f maybe ft because entire engine assemblies are only 150-170 by my house (used)

also I hate to get take apart the b23 since is such low miles engine

ps taking pictures right now
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:45 PM   #20
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What platform is it going into? If 7/9 just use a b234f
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:51 PM   #21
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What platform is it going into? If 7/9 just use a b234f
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I have a 16v head burning a hole in my wallet and on my shelf. I been thinking that I eventually might trow it into my 245.
no 7/9 series here

harder to find a b234f engine
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
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established that I wont use a b21 engine
options are b23 or b230
the b23 crank is the same as the b21 crank, so you'll need a special crank gear.
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:00 PM   #23
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lol

looks like its some b230 engine after all
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:02 PM   #24
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I forgot what belt I believe it was something off a fiat, but I'm pretty positive someone on here did a 16v with a square tooth belt
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:57 AM   #25
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hmm
shouldn't be to hard to find the correct belt - just count the number of teeth from round tooth and contact a belt manufacturer like Gates for the correct part#
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