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Old 02-01-2022, 05:52 PM   #126
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I'd think it was the airbox malfunction. Choke an air pump, less air will flow.
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Old 02-01-2022, 06:12 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by esmth View Post
you touched the kickdown cable
Genius! I missed it on the first three time trials before the camshaft installation and hit it all three times afterwards. Who'd a thunk it?
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Old 02-01-2022, 07:13 PM   #128
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I'd think it was the airbox malfunction. Choke an air pump, less air will flow.
Bzzzzt. Wrong answer.

The airbox duct was not even present in time trials before the VX cam was installed (15.4 sec 0-60). It was installed WITH the new cam. Initially after the VX cam was installed, the 0-60 time remained 15.4 sec. That's what lead to finding that the airbox thermostat was broken.

Removing the duct from the exhaust manifold and rerouting the duct to forward of the radiator (cold air) removed that issue. So, we're back to no hot air entering the box, and the remaining mod is the VX cam.
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Old 02-01-2022, 08:07 PM   #129
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Keep up the good work and enjoy your car at whatever level of investment and performance you like it
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Old 02-01-2022, 08:10 PM   #130
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I'll have to see what my 0-60 is. I have a high comp B23F with an A cam +4 deg. AW70 and a 3.91 rear. I just didn't feel like going to a the A cam provided an insane amount of HP. The B23s with A cam are 129 HP, mine is 114? Chances are that its in the 120s now.

When I owned a 2016 Corolla Sport, that was rated at 10.5 seconds 0-60. Pretty wild how much better a lower displacement vehicle with a CVT trans and better tech can do. Similar weight to my 242, as well.
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:10 PM   #131
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Six pages, Yes! 240 is SLOWFORTY No More.
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:44 PM   #132
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Six pages, Yes! 240 is SLOWFORTY No More.

Indeed! I'm as surprised as anyone at the interest in this thread.

But slow is relative. My first "car" was a 1949 Chevrolet 3600 3/4 ton pickup with a 216 straight 6 and 4-on-the-floor (1st was a creeper gear with a top speed of 9 mph). I bought it as surplus from the Quonset Navy Yard. Compared to it, my 240 is a rocket.

To keep things going, let's hear some informed opinions on how close one can set camshaft clearances on the intake and exhaust sides. Over on the thread on NA performance mods, a figure of 0.012" or less is given. How much less? How low can you go? Your answer would be most useful if you shared why you chose a certain clearance.
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:51 PM   #133
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Going tighter with your current setup is going to increase the cam duration and bleed of more compression, probably not what you want.
Even going looser might help with bringing back some low end.

I've ran pretty tight on a IPD turbo cam (b230ft) to help with high revs. It just idled like it had a big cam, and wasn't great down low. I went back to .015 on the turbo cam. No real top end difference with going looser.

I've ran 0.008" on a k-cam and spun it to over 8k rpm on a NA rally engine. This motor was ~11.5:1 CR though, so slightly different. Never spit a shim or floated valves (dual spring setup).
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:54 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmg4 View Post
Indeed! I'm as surprised as anyone at the interest in this thread.

But slow is relative. My first "car" was a 1949 Chevrolet 3600 3/4 ton pickup with a 216 straight 6 and 4-on-the-floor (1st was a creeper gear with a top speed of 9 mph). I bought it as surplus from the Quonset Navy Yard. Compared to it, my 240 is a rocket.

To keep things going, let's hear some informed opinions on how close one can set camshaft clearances on the intake and exhaust sides. Over on the thread on NA performance mods, a figure of 0.012" or less is given. How much less? How low can you go? Your answer would be most useful if you shared why you chose a certain clearance.
Whoa well all right, hey so back in the day my grandfather was an engineer at Bethlehem Steel, Lackawanna. As for the valve clearances your not looking for 12s, too tight 15s or 16s is better.
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:55 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmg4 View Post
Indeed! I'm as surprised as anyone at the interest in this thread.

But slow is relative. My first "car" was a 1949 Chevrolet 3600 3/4 ton pickup with a 216 straight 6 and 4-on-the-floor (1st was a creeper gear with a top speed of 9 mph). I bought it as surplus from the Quonset Navy Yard. Compared to it, my 240 is a rocket.
I feel that. My current work vehicle is a 99 4.2 F150. That's why I'm not super concerned about making my 240 into a hot rod.

I'm happy that your project is headed in the right direction. That's always a good feeling.
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Old 02-02-2022, 05:44 AM   #136
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In discussions with the folks at Clearwater Cylinder Head, the techs there said they normally set the clearances at 007-.010 on the intake and .010 to .013 on the exhaust if it's a completely rebuilt B230f head with new valves, guides, and springs. This seems pretty close to the "0.012" or less" spec advised in the NA Performance section of this forum. These guys ship over 1000 heads per month, and have rebuilt several hundred B230f heads over the years, so it's not their first rodeo. They have buckets of every possible shim at their disposal, and they'll fuss a bit more with this one to get it spot on to a given spec. So, I'm contemplating going along with their recommendation on the head they are building for me.

The VX cam in the car now does not seem to lack bottom end grunt compared to the M cam that was removed, and the idle is also as it was before the swap. Granted, the car never did exactly leap off the line, but it has never stalled or farted either. I might try running it up to 7000 rpm someday, but since I got my Covid booster, I piss in my pants whenever the tach goes past 6000 from the electromagnetic field. My goal is more related to mid-range performance, ability to get around the Amish safely on roads around here, a bit more power to climb hills, etc. On the interstates, the engine is going to hum along just shy of 3000 rpm for most of its life.

The tech at Clearwater said it's virtually impossible for them to acquire Penta heads anymore, as most look like coral debris due to death by saltwater. Too bad. That was my first choice for the donor head.

Last edited by dmg4; 02-02-2022 at 05:58 AM..
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Old 02-02-2022, 09:30 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmg4 View Post
In discussions with the folks at Clearwater Cylinder Head, the techs there said they normally set the clearances at 007-.010 on the intake and .010 to .013 on the exhaust if it's a completely rebuilt B230f head with new valves, guides, and springs. This seems pretty close to the "0.012" or less" spec advised in the NA Performance section of this forum. These guys ship over 1000 heads per month, and have rebuilt several hundred B230f heads over the years, so it's not their first rodeo. They have buckets of every possible shim at their disposal, and they'll fuss a bit more with this one to get it spot on to a given spec. So, I'm contemplating going along with their recommendation on the head they are building for me.

The VX cam in the car now does not seem to lack bottom end grunt compared to the M cam that was removed, and the idle is also as it was before the swap. Granted, the car never did exactly leap off the line, but it has never stalled or farted either. I might try running it up to 7000 rpm someday, but since I got my Covid booster, I piss in my pants whenever the tach goes past 6000 from the electromagnetic field. My goal is more related to mid-range performance, ability to get around the Amish safely on roads around here, a bit more power to climb hills, etc. On the interstates, the engine is going to hum along just shy of 3000 rpm for most of its life.

The tech at Clearwater said it's virtually impossible for them to acquire Penta heads anymore, as most look like coral debris due to death by saltwater. Too bad. That was my first choice for the donor head.
If you're having head work done, why not have larger valves installed? The clip came off my WG actuator one time so my car was basically running N/A, I could definitely tell it breathes better and has more power than when it had stock valves.
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Old 02-02-2022, 09:47 AM   #138
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If you're having head work done, why not have larger valves installed? The clip came off my WG actuator one time so my car was basically running N/A, I could definitely tell it breathes better and has more power than when it had stock valves.
Hmmmm..... this has possibilities. I'll ask the shop and see what they can do.

Any downside?
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Old 02-02-2022, 09:58 AM   #139
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I shim valve clearances to 0.015" unless otherwise specified by cam manufacturer.
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Old 02-02-2022, 10:27 AM   #140
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0.33mm or 0.013in gave me a surprisingly hawg idle with the B cam.
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Old 02-02-2022, 10:32 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esmth View Post
0.33mm or 0.013in gave me a surprisingly hawg idle with the B cam.
B cam has that chop chop chop
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Old 02-02-2022, 10:36 AM   #142
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Quote:
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0.33mm or 0.013in gave me a surprisingly hawg idle with the B cam.
I assume that is a less likely outcome with a VX cam, correct?
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Old 02-02-2022, 10:49 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
If you're having head work done, why not have larger valves installed? The clip came off my WG actuator one time so my car was basically running N/A, I could definitely tell it breathes better and has more power than when it had stock valves.
Another question: is there any difference between the head on your engine and the one used on a NA B230f? I ask because I'm wondering if larger valves are likely to produce the same benefit you noticed if the downstream route is constipated as it enters the manifold. The interweb chatter seems to be negative on the stock exhaust ports of the NA B230f, to the extent that it is irredeemable by altered porting. Intake side does not seem to garner as much attention from the chatterers.

Not opposed to spending a bit more, but the "bit" part is not infinite, and needs to produce some speed or fuel economy under the cruising conditions to which this car will be subjected.

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Old 02-02-2022, 10:57 AM   #144
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The exhaust valve is the undersized valve. You can go to a 37mm exhaust valve without changing the exhaust valve seat. With flow work you can get a 20% increase in flow from the head. I'd also suggest a street performance cam like the n/a enem V15. Plenty of down low torque and winds out with power to redline. Probably want to advance it a few degrees to help with the auto trans.
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Old 02-02-2022, 11:45 AM   #145
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The exhaust valve is the undersized valve. You can go to a 37mm exhaust valve without changing the exhaust valve seat. With flow work you can get a 20% increase in flow from the head. I'd also suggest a street performance cam like the n/a enem V15. Plenty of down low torque and winds out with power to redline. Probably want to advance it a few degrees to help with the auto trans.
What's the "flow work" that would be involved?
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Old 02-02-2022, 12:01 PM   #146
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Machine shops can clean up and modify the passages and get a documented flow increase on these heads. I've had two heads done from D&F Performance in Berlin, NJ. One is on my turbo. It made a good performance increase at all rpms. Our member here Culberro can do this type of work.
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Old 02-02-2022, 12:05 PM   #147
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To improve my n/a 93 wagon. I only did three things. I setup the airbox so it uses both intakes for cold air. Changed the cam to a n/a enem V15. Chipped EZK box. Now it has decent power, good mileage and can keep up with modern traffic.
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Old 02-02-2022, 12:30 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by dmg4 View Post
What's the "flow work" that would be involved?
Look around here: http://www.topplocksverkstan.se/toppar.html

This is what I do (click the pics on n the first post to get to the larger Flickr album):
https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=349975

Here’s the larger Flickr album:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/151736174@N04/0ic9yG

A good stock valve head is capable of ~225hp+ according to Erland Cox. Going to larger valves with a mild NA engine is not the direction you want to be going IMO.

KLR142 is making 150 something wheel HP on a stock valve head and a k-jet manifold (mild ported 531, higher compression, and a big cam).

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Old 02-02-2022, 01:44 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
Look around here: http://www.topplocksverkstan.se/toppar.html

This is what I do (click the pics on n the first post to get to the larger Flickr album):
https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=349975

Here’s the larger Flickr album:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/151736174@N04/0ic9yG

A good stock valve head is capable of ~225hp+ according to Erland Cox. Going to larger valves with a mild NA engine is not the direction you want to be going IMO.

KLR142 is making 150 something wheel HP on a stock valve head and a k-jet manifold (mild ported 531, higher compression, and a big cam).

OK, in that case, it looks like I might be back to just shaving the head 0.040", sticking with the mild VX cam for now, and upgrading the exhaust later, if necessary.

So, what do you think of setting the clearances at 007-.010 on the intake and .010 to .013 on the exhaust if it's a completely rebuilt B230f head with new valves, guides, and springs?
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Old 02-02-2022, 04:42 PM   #150
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Since you have an auto with a pretty low stall rpm, I’d just leave the valve clearances at the suggested 0.015” to start with. The VX will pull all the way to redline with only a slight dip in the upper revs.

Increasing the duration via tighter valves isn’t going to do much for you (if anything), even with more CR.

But you can do whatever you want and report back on your findings
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