home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-27-2020, 05:50 PM   #26
VB242
Beep beep zip tang
 
VB242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Right Coast
Default

I blew the seals out of one of those in a couple months. Only weekend driving autocrossing, but I was running 22+psi. I don't recommend it. I ended up putting this turbo back on it after about 3 years of similar use, there was some wear on the impeller tips, but it's still making a lot of power. I welded on a V Band for my 3"exhaust though so not sure what you'll do with a stock exhaust connection. I also had to reclock it.https://www.ebay.com/itm/124224296182

Edit: I forgot your problem came from your 3" exhaust. I bought the kinugawa oil feed kit but I had a custom drain line made.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 240240 View Post
I'm shocked someone actually took me seriously.
VB242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2020, 06:31 PM   #27
rb92673
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: San Clemente
Default

If you want to come down to San Clemente, I can show you my T3/T4 setup on my Lemons car. The turbo is actually removed right now so it is easy to see. I went from Garrett T3 to the T3/T4 setup.

I used this turbo: https://yoshifab.com/store/t04e-50-trim.html

If you are going from a Mitsu to Garrett style I think you will need:
- Manifold modification to match the turbo flange and new 10mm studs. https://yoshifab.com/store/volvo-man...n-service.html
- You will also need to figure out hardware to keep the turbo attached to the manifold. So far I have tried several methods, but at the end of the race turbo is not tight to the manifold and leaking precious boost.
- Mine is water cooled, I used the existing lines and banjo connections.
- Oil feed. I used a -4 AN feed line. -4AN to 1/8 NPT on the turbo side, M14 x 1.5 on the block
- Oil return I used a -10 AN line. Bought an adapter for the turbo side on ebay, Yoshifab -10 AN adapter on block.
- I kept the stock 2.5" wastegate, I think you need a 3".
- I don't know what you have for intake tubing, I used a 3" to 2.25" reducer and 2.25" joiner to connect to my stock intake from siliconintakes.com
- My tubing from the turbo to the intercooler worked with some minor adjustments.

Even with my wastegate wired open, this setup will boost up to about 12 PSI at 6,000 RPM, I don't what it will do with 3". I put a 12 PSI actuator on it for the last race and it was nice.
rb92673 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2020, 02:06 PM   #28
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishKnievel View Post
After a lot of mental masturbation on this topic, it seems that the T3/T4 is the least effort / best chance for success approach. Help me understand some things if you will:

1. Advantages of the ATP waste gate vs. some other waste gate that might come on a complete turbo on ebay? If I use the ATP WG, can I use the actuator off my 13c (I have 3 of those now)?

That is, this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/T04E-T3-T4-....c100677.m4598

vs this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/T04E-T3-T4-....c100677.m4598

2. The term "60 trim" I think refers to the exhaust manifold interface? Is that right? Does it relate to a specific measurement?

3. A/R ratio. What should I look for?

4. Does a T3/T4 use the coolant lines that the 13c does or do I cap them off?

5. What should I expect to have to modify for the oil lines?

I really appreciate your help. Thank you in advance.
I like the ATP gate as it flows so much better than the traditional internal WG setups that you linked to. You might be able to get the 13c actuator to work if youíre stubborn/motivated/cheap enough.

Trim size is in reference to the size of the inducer/exducer of the turbine or compressor wheel. In this case, 60 trim refers to the compressor side.

For turbine AR, Iíd recommend 0.63 or so for road racing. Itíll keep everything a bit cooler vs a 0.48 housing. You might be able to go to a 0.8-ish housing as well depending on what RPM range you run the engine in. Higher AR number usually means slower time to boost, but the housing will flow more exhaust and will work better at higher revs.

You can find water cooled t3/t4 turbos, if you want to use one. Which might make sense with pit stops and driver changes in endurance racing. The 13c coolant lines will not work in my experience, but you can use parts of them to adapt new lines.

For oil lines, you can make or buy a simple oil feed and turbo drain setup. I think Kinugawa makes one, and you can also source your own stuff for cheap if youíre da military with the parts.

Depending on the budget you have for this upgrade, ATP sells Garret t3/t4 turbos and can set you up with a kit that will work well for you. Itíll be ~$850.
You can also go with an eBay turbo (get one thatís VSR balanced) and then add on the ATP gate. That would run about $250-400.
__________________
Cult Person. Pissing in your Kool-Aid.
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2020, 01:46 PM   #29
SwedishKnievel
Board Member
 
SwedishKnievel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Default

A trip to San Clemente is likely in my near future. Having eyes on what works is always beneficial. Thank you for the offer.

I've elected to give the waste gate porting one chance. Here is the before and after of the porting:




I measured the waste gate port at just under 18mm before I started. I ended up just over 26mm when finished. I also cleaned up the path to the port on the exhaust manifold side. There was a bump in the casting that seemed to me would push the flow past the port:



Based on what I have read, I do not believe there is a good chance this works but given that my cost to try was a little of my time, I thought "why not?" Any last thoughts before I bolt this together this coming weekend?
SwedishKnievel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2020, 02:08 PM   #30
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

That looks exactly like what I did on my old 13c. It ran fine with a short 2.5" open downpipe.
culberro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2020, 07:15 PM   #31
klr142
Turbo, what?
 
klr142's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: OR
Default

https://yoshifab.com/store/turbo.html

Edit, I see it's posted above. It was worth mentioning again though!

Last edited by klr142; 11-03-2020 at 12:12 PM..
klr142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2020, 07:39 AM   #32
dalek
Benchracer Tribe
 
dalek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orange Alert, NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rb92673 View Post
- You will also need to figure out hardware to keep the turbo attached to the manifold. So far I have tried several methods, but at the end of the race turbo is not tight to the manifold and leaking precious boost.
Care to elaborate?
__________________
"you can't leave your thingy hanging in public... you can get arrested."
"What's Arkansas supposed to be, Kansas for pirates?" Forg
"I think I can touch the tire. Damn! I can touch the tire! That hurts!" 240Psycho (on the back seat of my 94 Jetta while I was driving to a J/Y)
"Use the barbed adapter like what I use to inflate the air camping mattresses and my dates." FTF Engineering
i am inspired. i will replace my windsheild... with an intercooler.swedishK
Feedback!
dalek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2020, 05:20 PM   #33
rb92673
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: San Clemente
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalek View Post
Care to elaborate?
I did here.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=356443

I might just weld the hot side to the manifold.
rb92673 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 10:56 AM   #34
SwedishKnievel
Board Member
 
SwedishKnievel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Default

deleted duplicate post

Last edited by SwedishKnievel; 11-09-2020 at 04:02 PM..
SwedishKnievel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 11:26 AM   #35
SwedishKnievel
Board Member
 
SwedishKnievel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rb92673 View Post
I did here.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=356443

I might just weld the hot side to the manifold.
Well, it's easy to go down the rabbit hole with the Miata guys on this.

I've looked but cannot find a B230 exhaust manifold/header that has a vband connection to the turbo and an external wastegate port. That would solve almost everything.

Does anyone on TB forums make custom B230 headers?

Like thishttps://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/340AA...j-4/s-l400.jpg
SwedishKnievel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2020, 12:16 PM   #36
rb92673
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: San Clemente
Default

I know Josh at Yoshifab has a guy that makes custom headers for him, but that seems like another rabbit hole. I am not sure how well they will stand up to 24 hours of straight racing.
rb92673 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2020, 04:46 PM   #37
SwedishKnievel
Board Member
 
SwedishKnievel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Default

I was able to install the ported wastegate exhaust housing on the turbo and reinstall but for the downpipe connection (ran out of time).

Something of note: by chance I noticed the magnetic response of the factory manifold-to-turbo studs was low. Relative to @rb9267e's issue with his turbo coming loose after extended periods of high output use, are the factory studs (8mm) made from ss or some other exotic material? It's certainly different than the nuts and most of the other hardware in the engine compartment (touches everything in the engine compartment with a magnet)

In case you missed it, the guys who put turbos on their Miatas and take them to the track have this problem. Online, they have a never ending argument over how to solve it. Also, they argue over Inconel is or is not the same as/as effective as A286, cutting vs rolling threads, safety wire, stage 8 nuts vs nordlocks, NASA approved high temp threadlocker and more. Google it if you have a schadenfreude kink.
SwedishKnievel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2020, 07:58 PM   #38
rb92673
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: San Clemente
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishKnievel View Post
In case you missed it, the guys who put turbos on their Miatas and take them to the track have this problem. Online, they have a never ending argument over how to solve it. Also, they argue over Inconel is or is not the same as/as effective as A286, cutting vs rolling threads, safety wire, stage 8 nuts vs nordlocks, NASA approved high temp threadlocker and more. Google it if you have a schadenfreude kink.
I did read all that. My manifold/turbo is drilled for 10mm studs. I have tried studs from an auto parts store, probably Dorman, with locking copper nuts, they backed out and broke off. Same studs, drilled and safety wired with copper locking nuts, they came loose. Studs sold as A286/Inconel (I know Incenel and A286 are two different things) with Stage 8 nuts, no resbond, came loose.

Mazda RX7 studs are allegedly Inconel, haven't tried them. I also haven't tried nordlocks.

I just rebuilt the turbo and engine. Maybe it was one of those.
rb92673 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2020, 08:03 PM   #39
SwedishKnievel
Board Member
 
SwedishKnievel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Default

The studs are backing out or stretching? Or the nuts are coming loose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rb92673 View Post
I did read all that. My manifold/turbo is drilled for 10mm studs. I have tried studs from an auto parts store, probably Dorman, with locking copper nuts, they backed out and broke off. Same studs, drilled and safety wired with copper locking nuts, they came loose. Studs sold as A286/Inconel (I know Incenel and A286 are two different things) with Stage 8 nuts, no resbond, came loose.

Mazda RX7 studs are allegedly Inconel, haven't tried them. I also haven't tried nordlocks.

I just rebuilt the turbo and engine. Maybe it was one of those.
SwedishKnievel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2020, 11:17 AM   #40
rb92673
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: San Clemente
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishKnievel View Post
The studs are backing out or stretching? Or the nuts are coming loose?
When I safety wired the studs, I suspect they stretched as the studs came out of the manifold with the studs. I have not analyzed my last failure.
rb92673 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:23 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.