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Old 03-17-2021, 05:43 PM   #1
RoadRacer4Life
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Default Clutch type LSD options for dana diff?

I'm working on Randy Pobst's Flying Moose 740 endurance race car and we are having severe inside wheel spin with his car. Its especially noticeable on hard right hand turns. The car is currently equipped with a Wavetrac unit and to say the least we are disappointed in its performance. My searches online have not found anything helpful. Other than installing an 8.8 diff in this car does anyone have any suggestions that could help out.

Thanks guys

-Sam
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Old 03-17-2021, 06:15 PM   #2
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Did you fix the rear suspension issues, like those horrible limiting chains and installing tender springs?
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Old 03-17-2021, 06:21 PM   #3
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Have you tried painting it brown?
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Old 03-17-2021, 06:53 PM   #4
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Wasn't the Wavetrac tunable? I keep seeing people bashing the TruTrac since it isn't, saying the Wavetrac is better because of that. Have you checked the breakaway torque on it to make sure it's not releasing earlier than it should? Probably a stupid question, but how about fluid? I know the TT's are spec'd to specifically NOT use synthetic, and I did notice a difference in lockup when I went to dino oil. For my use I run about 30% sync, the rest dino, and no modifier, seems to work really well in both cars and the D44/D60 TT's on the Dodge. The TT in the wagon doesn't really spin much on right turns before it lights up the left side and goes sideways.
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Old 03-17-2021, 06:58 PM   #5
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Check out this thread from a 240 that runs on the West Coast. He tried a bunch of stuff and settled on a Gripper on page 3. Team Bernal Dads, I know Randy has driven their car.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=346516
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Old 03-17-2021, 07:03 PM   #6
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The gripper is going to be the best bang for the buck on a full track car, Sellholm is an option for bigger bucks. Wavetracs can work on track conditions but they are a magnifying glass for setup issues. If you don't have your **** dialed in, it becomes painfully obvious. Clutch types are much less picky and just work.
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Old 03-18-2021, 10:44 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
Did you fix the rear suspension issues, like those horrible limiting chains and installing tender springs?
We tested the car at Road Atlanta and removed the limiting straps all together. Still significant inside side tire spin coming out of turn 7. This is supposed to be the higher preload wavetrac unit. Any ideas on things I could do to improve its performance. Has anyone else used that grabber unit?

-Sam
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Old 03-18-2021, 10:49 AM   #8
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I know it's apples and kumquats but Doug had one of the Gripper's in his Yellow way back in the day, really did well in that car, managed to keep it hooked with 400something at the ground.
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Old 03-18-2021, 10:49 AM   #9
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I've been waffling on buying a wavetrac, but not interested in a plate unit for a street car... interested to see how this shakes out.
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Old 03-18-2021, 11:00 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Stiggy Pop View Post
I've been waffling on buying a wavetrac, but not interested in a plate unit for a street car... interested to see how this shakes out.
You will never run into these type of issues on a streetcar.
You need to be pushing the car really hard to see these issues.

We have a gripper on the race car, works fantastic on the track but its pretty loud and I wouldn't not want to DD it.
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Old 03-18-2021, 11:02 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by RoadRacer4Life View Post
We tested the car at Road Atlanta and removed the limiting straps all together. Still significant inside side tire spin coming out of turn 7. This is supposed to be the higher preload wavetrac unit. Any ideas on things I could do to improve its performance. Has anyone else used that grabber unit?

-Sam
Getting real tender springs in there so there's no point in the suspensions travel range that the rear can just flop unloaded.

You need to always be pushing that tire against the track.

Lower the rear panhard bar. You can even angle it so that way it will work better on turn 7.
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Old 03-20-2021, 11:35 PM   #12
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Weld it?
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Old 03-23-2021, 01:16 AM   #13
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Is there a Gripper dealer in North America?
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Old 03-23-2021, 10:09 AM   #14
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Is there a Gripper dealer in North America?
I am one.
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Old 03-26-2021, 01:33 AM   #15
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I am one.
Thanks, I email you.
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Old 03-30-2021, 01:50 AM   #16
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Coming a bit late to this thread, but that's our car in the linked thread above. Randy drove it at one point and we commiserated later about what a piece of junk the Wavetrac had turned out to be in our application. At the time he drove it we were still pretty early into experimenting, but nothing we tried pre-Gripper made a lick of difference.

As Ben notes, the race-spec Gripper makes some ugly noises occasionally, but it works like magic. We run Swepco 210 because things get a bit toasty back there and our previous fill was coming out like water after a weekend. Could probably have gone halfway with something like Redline 75-110, but not really keen on more experiments in that area right now. 8)

The wing ... we have less science about. It sure *feels* like it helps keep the rear planted in fast corners, but honestly even if it didn't we'd keep it for the giggle factor.

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Old 03-30-2021, 03:28 AM   #17
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It’s also a 240 so that gives it 2 legs up in terms of rear suspension setup as well
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:16 AM   #18
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anyone running a gripper or other clutch diff on a limited use "multi purpose" car? Doesn't seem to be a ton of feedback out there on something that's not full out race-spec.
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Old 04-14-2021, 12:00 PM   #19
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I'm gonna come up with a solution for this and make a million dollars, $14.99 at a time.
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Old 04-14-2021, 03:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiggy Pop View Post
anyone running a gripper or other clutch diff on a limited use "multi purpose" car? Doesn't seem to be a ton of feedback out there on something that's not full out race-spec.
Are you worried about noise or performance?
In "low" preload clutch LSDs, there's no noise to be heard.
High preload race diffs will make some clunk/pops in tight slow turns as the plates "stick-slip-stick". You can usually add more "LSD additive" until this quiets down.
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Old 04-14-2021, 03:46 PM   #21
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I'm gonna come up with a solution for this and make $14.99, $14.99 at a time.
Fixed for TB.
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Old 04-14-2021, 03:51 PM   #22
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Are you worried about noise or performance?
In "low" preload clutch LSDs, there's no noise to be heard.
High preload race diffs will make some clunk/pops in tight slow turns as the plates "stick-slip-stick". You can usually add more "LSD additive" until this quiets down.
Noise, really. I made some really nice improvements in the rear end last year and got rid of a lot of clunking and clomping. I don't want to put something in for a performance increase but have to listen to something chattering or clanking away every time I turn into a driveway.

I drive the car <1,000 miles a year by a good margin, and every year it's torn down for something anyways so maintenance is of no concern to me. Just always trying to hit the sweet spot as much as I can; the car makes a lot of power and I drive it hard, but it's still a street car that will only see the track once or twice a year on a good year (Lime Rock, I doubt I'll ever bring the car to a drag strip or anything). I've had my credit card ready for a few months I just can't decide where the sweet spot is between truetrac > wavetrac > gripper (as the apparently readily available options).

I'm coming from a locked g80 so everything is an improvement. I just like to spend all my money at once and avoid rework.
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Old 04-14-2021, 04:24 PM   #23
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I'd go for a gripper setup for fast road or light track, which would be minimal preload and decent ramps to get the LSD working under drive torque or load.
"Road soft" or "Road/Trackday" is what they call it.
These are setup with lower preload and a "1 or 1.5 way" ramp (I hate that 1,1.5, 2-way lingo!).
You can also email them and they can tell you what would be a quieter diff setup as well.

If you're running an electric speedo on the diff, you'll need the outer part of the housing machined down for a tone-ring to be added.
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Old 04-14-2021, 04:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
I'd go for a gripper setup for fast road or light track, which would be minimal preload and decent ramps to get the LSD working under drive torque or load.
"Road soft" or "Road/Trackday" is what they call it.
These are setup with lower preload and a "1 or 1.5 way" ramp (I hate that 1,1.5, 2-way lingo!).
You can also email them and they can tell you what would be a quieter diff setup as well.

If you're running an electric speedo on the diff, you'll need the outer part of the housing machined down for a tone-ring to be added.
thanks this is helpful information. I am running a late year 1031 with the pickup in the diff so this is good to know. I thought of something in the garage the other day I wanted to ask you about, but I can't remember it now...

Dr. Kaplan I'll be in your inbox soon to ask thoughts on getting me set up with a fitting unit.
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Old 04-18-2021, 07:10 PM   #25
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[deleted - it was Ben's 850, not TFM at Pitt]

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