home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > maintenance & nonperformance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-22-2021, 12:37 PM   #1
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default New Valve Springs?

I plan to replace the intake stems seals on the b23f in my 83 242 soon. I get a bit of blue smoke upon start up, and since I'm already going to be swapping in the A cam, it will work out perfectly.

With valve springs, I'm most familiar with the LS motors, and how age and mileage effects those. An LS motor with a good amount of mileage can really benefit from some new valve springs. My b23f has well north of 250k miles, and I'm wondering if new valve springs are ever really needed on these motors if they aren't broken?
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2021, 02:00 PM   #2
shoestring
Board Member
 
shoestring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Swampscott, 01907
Default

Valvetrain is valvetrain. When I refresh a head, I put springs in it. Also, I use beehive springs, because they offer superior performance.
__________________
I AM THE MODAL AMERICAN. Planet money #936.
shoestring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2021, 02:41 PM   #3
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoestring View Post
Valvetrain is valvetrain. When I refresh a head, I put springs in it. Also, I use beehive springs, because they offer superior performance.
Makes sense. What brand of springs do you use, and where do you get them? That would also require different retainers, correct?
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2021, 08:25 PM   #4
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

I found that ITM VS1275 is supposed to fit the 240s. Only $51 shipped through RockAuto, so not bad. Anyone have experience with those?
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 04:45 PM   #5
dl242gt
Happy playing the blues
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCarNewTricks View Post
Makes sense. What brand of springs do you use, and where do you get them? That would also require different retainers, correct?
We did a group buy with Yoshifab and bought a kit with all the parts needed for beehive spring installation.
__________________
Dave,
1982 242 turbo. 338k miles. MVP coilovers and 3" exhaust. Flowed 405 with a V15. Cossie turbine housing with upgraded compressor housing. 90+, IPD remote oil filter. Some other goodness, too. Been lots of fun over 25 years. Restored in 2k. Now ready for a 2nd restoration.

1993 245 Classic, 435k miles, enem V15. IPD bars and chassis braces. Simons sport exhaust from Scandix. sbabbs ezk chip. Been a good road warrior. Genuine Volvo rebuilt leaky M47.
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 05:01 PM   #6
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
We did a group buy with Yoshifab and bought a kit with all the parts needed for beehive spring installation.
I see. Thanks for the info. Yoshifab has the kit for $285, but that's pretty expensive for no gain in my case. I'm running an A cam to start, so I'll likely stick with an OE replacement.

I found a NOS set of Volvo valve springs for $65. All the aftermarket OE springs require different seats and retainers, so I think those Volvo ones may be my best bet.
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 05:06 PM   #7
hiperfauto
The Librarian
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

Volvo used 2 different size valve springs, 29mm and 33mm. According to the parts catalog B23F engine got the smaller 29mm springs and it looks like that's what the VS1275's are.

If you get 33mm springs you'll also need the spring seats and retainers for them.

Whats the part number on the NOS Volvo springs?
hiperfauto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 05:21 PM   #8
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Volvo used 2 different size valve springs, 29mm and 33mm. According to the parts catalog B23F engine got the smaller 29mm springs and it looks like that's what the VS1275's are.

If you get 33mm springs you'll also need the spring seats and retainers for them.

Whats the part number on the NOS Volvo springs?
Interesting. Do you happen to know why they had the two different sizes?

The P/N is 473739.

VS1275's *may* be the way to go, since they are a tad cheaper.
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 05:24 PM   #9
hiperfauto
The Librarian
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

463739 are the larger springs.

https://www.skandix.de/en/spare-part...pring/1000449/
hiperfauto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 05:32 PM   #10
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Hmm. Perhaps the ad is misprinted. Sounds like the VS1275's are the replacement of choice. Thank you for the help!
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 08:07 PM   #11
dl242gt
Happy playing the blues
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Those are the ones I have in my 405 head. They are a great product. Just as an trivia nugget Stealthfti actually found three types of valve springs. https://pbase.com/stealthfti/headwork

Scroll down to the valve spring gallery.
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 08:29 PM   #12
hiperfauto
The Librarian
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

That would explain the 26mm spring mentioned in the greenbook.
hiperfauto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 08:33 PM   #13
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

I have the eBay ad for the NOS springs (URL) here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/8pcs-Volvo-....m46890.l49286

The Volvo tag has 473739 on it, but the ad says they've been sitting around for 30+ years, so I'm not sure. OEM would be nice.

Is there any true advantage to the different sizes?
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 08:51 PM   #14
hiperfauto
The Librarian
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

You're not lying. No wonder they haven't been able to sell them, there's a typo in the part number. 473739 doesn't come up in Volvo's system.

The larger springs are a little stiffer so they're better suited to a cam with higher lift.


Last edited by hiperfauto; 04-23-2021 at 09:07 PM..
hiperfauto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 09:37 PM   #15
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
You're not lying. No wonder they haven't been able to sell them, there's a typo in the part number. 473739 doesn't come up in Volvo's system.

The larger springs are a little stiffer so they're better suited to a cam with higher lift.

I need to measure mine to see what I actually have. Looks like they could either be the larger on the left, or the small ones in the middle...

I'm thinking that either the 29mm or 33mm would be the best suited to the A cam over the M cam.
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 10:18 PM   #16
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

According to https://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~a...ad_531_530.htm it seems that my head (1000 398) likely came with the 33mm springs. Well, under the photo it says the B21/B23 would come with the 33mm and the 26mm was used on the low friction models in '85 on. 29mm was used to upgrade the weak 26mm springs.

Edit: so I think that means the NOS springs would be the ones that would work?

Last edited by OldCarNewTricks; 04-23-2021 at 10:26 PM..
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 11:28 PM   #17
hiperfauto
The Librarian
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

The parts catalog (which isn't always correct) specifically calls for the 9135130 spring for B23F engines. This tidbit from the greenbook says B23F used 26mm springs. I know I said it should have 29mm springs but it's hard to tell whether the spring is 26mm or 29mm since the part number didn't change. You'll need to measure to be sure.

hiperfauto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2021, 11:55 PM   #18
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
The parts catalog (which isn't always correct) specifically calls for the 9135130 spring for B23F engines. This tidbit from the greenbook says B23F used 26mm springs. I know I said it should have 29mm springs but it's hard to tell whether the spring is 26mm or 29mm since the part number didn't change. You'll need to measure to be sure.

I'll have to measure my springs during my next weekend. If I have 26mm springs, I'll likely end up using Volvo's service kit p/n 271793, which includes the 29mm spring, and both of the required retainers. At least, I think it does..
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 01:01 AM   #19
hiperfauto
The Librarian
 
hiperfauto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Default

It looks like the 29mm springs, seats and retainers did have different part numbers, 1332136, 1332137 and 1332138 respectively. The part numbers only appear in the '85-'87 240-260 catalog and the 780 catalog. The later catalogs use the part numbers for the smaller springs in the '79-'84 parts catalog, 9135130, 9135132 and 9135131 respectively. As you said, the 3 pieces are available as a service kit.

hiperfauto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 08:10 AM   #20
shoestring
Board Member
 
shoestring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Swampscott, 01907
Default

I use Ford Mustang 4.6 32v springs (I think it's from an early 2000's Cobra or something like that) and 6.2 Ford F150 Raptor retainers. I open up the top of the spring with a Dremel tool to fit the retainer, some guys turn the retainer down to fit the spring. It's not much, like 0.020", and I haven't found that it compromises the spring at all. About 8000 race miles at up to 6840 rpm on the same set.
shoestring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 11:32 AM   #21
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
It looks like the 29mm springs, seats and retainers did have different part numbers, 1332136, 1332137 and 1332138 respectively. The part numbers only appear in the '85-'87 240-260 catalog and the 780 catalog. The later catalogs use the part numbers for the smaller springs in the '79-'84 parts catalog, 9135130, 9135132 and 9135131 respectively. As you said, the 3 pieces are available as a service kit.

Excellent. I really appreciate you looking everything up. I have a cheap-o OHC spring tool kit on the way for next Thursday, so I'll have to get it done then.

If they're the 26mm they will *have* to go
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 11:36 AM   #22
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoestring View Post
I use Ford Mustang 4.6 32v springs (I think it's from an early 2000's Cobra or something like that) and 6.2 Ford F150 Raptor retainers. I open up the top of the spring with a Dremel tool to fit the retainer, some guys turn the retainer down to fit the spring. It's not much, like 0.020", and I haven't found that it compromises the spring at all. About 8000 race miles at up to 6840 rpm on the same set.
Now that's super creative. What camshaft are you running on top of those?

Woah, those 4.6 springs are cheap! Would there be any issue with using them on my stock A cam? I mean, it shouldn't wipe the cam lobes being that they're Ford OEM replacement springs, right?

Edit: nevermind, I think I was looking at the 4.6 SOHC springs.

Last edited by OldCarNewTricks; 04-24-2021 at 12:00 PM..
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 06:56 PM   #23
shoestring
Board Member
 
shoestring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Swampscott, 01907
Default

Seat pressure is almost exactly the same as the stock Volvo springs, the rate is also very much in the ballpark. Beehive shape makes the spring control difference, plus the ability to run a smaller (lighter) retainer. I use that retainer because it uses exactly the same lock the stock Volvo does and I didn't want to run into some funny shenanigans with that. Also, they're drop in, but you won't be able to use hushers.

They ARE cheap. It's what happens when you're on a shoestring budget.
shoestring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2021, 07:17 PM   #24
OldCarNewTricks
Board Member
 
OldCarNewTricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoestring View Post
Seat pressure is almost exactly the same as the stock Volvo springs, the rate is also very much in the ballpark. Beehive shape makes the spring control difference, plus the ability to run a smaller (lighter) retainer. I use that retainer because it uses exactly the same lock the stock Volvo does and I didn't want to run into some funny shenanigans with that. Also, they're drop in, but you won't be able to use hushers.

They ARE cheap. It's what happens when you're on a shoestring budget.
Super cool! Do you happen to have part numbers for the springs? My hushers have been dead for ages. This car is a "fun commuter" so nothing there bothers me.

Only information I can find is for 16v heads. Is yours an 8v or 16v?

Last edited by OldCarNewTricks; 04-24-2021 at 07:31 PM..
OldCarNewTricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2021, 10:17 AM   #25
shoestring
Board Member
 
shoestring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Swampscott, 01907
Default

8V.

Springs are F6LZ-6513-AB. Retainers AL3Z-6514-A. If you do this, you do have to be cautious to not nick any part of the spring that moves. Also make sure to remove the sharp edge that you'll create when you open it up. Just open it until the retainer sits flush on top of the spring.

Seat pressure on the Ford spring is listed at 65 lbs installed at 1.440", which I think is just a hair shorter than what it ends up installed at in the 530 head. Ford rate is 250lbs/in, just a tick up from the Volvo 230lbs/in. This is all based on the 26mm spring.

Come to think of it, we have a few engines running around with this setup. My daily has been running around with these for probably 75 or 80 thousand miles.
shoestring is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:35 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.