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Old 05-07-2021, 02:11 AM   #1
hk 40
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Default Has anyone done a high performance eBrick yet?

???? If not its certainly about time..... Lets brainstorm it and see what ideas are out there.

Regards,
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Old 05-07-2021, 02:22 AM   #2
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:08 AM   #3
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There's gotta be enough crashed out Teslas by now to make this real possible.
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:51 AM   #4
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240 electric
(Dutch language, sorry)
https://youtu.be/RnqIva4WXAY
I've seen that car as it was displayed in a volvo carshow. It's really well done.
You can buy complete conversion kits to convert your own car.
https://www.newelectric.nl/automotive/
It's not cheap though.
Here's a video about NewElectric in which they discuss the conversion of a US-market 240/260.
They convert it, get it road legal in NL and exporting this road legal Volvo 240-EV to Sweden.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGEIWO_nIjU

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Old 05-07-2021, 05:49 AM   #5
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https://ozvolvo.org/discussion/7150/...-the-evolvo/p1
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Old 05-07-2021, 06:55 AM   #6
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This is awesome, great read.
Amazed by the workmanship that went into this.
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Old 05-07-2021, 08:06 AM   #7
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I've briefly considered taking the straight bit of rear driveshaft on my 7-series and replacing it with a 100kw electric unit, thrunk has plenty of space for batteries if you put in a square box. The biggest downside to a driveshaft connected setup is that the e-motor will only reliably go to 6000rpm at that power output, so your top speed would be limited to about 60-70 mph. Awesome torque and weight distribution though on a wagon.

Fork truck motors can be had cheaply, and are a through axle design. If your willing to get to building your own battery packs, you could get something somewhat functional for 1-1.5k. Panamera on a budget
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Old 05-07-2021, 09:24 AM   #8
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I'll wait until Chevy makes that 800 hp 'e-COPO' motor that bolts right in where an LS motor was.
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Old 05-07-2021, 09:44 AM   #9
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its been on my wish list for a while to do.
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Old 05-07-2021, 09:52 AM   #10
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Series wound dc motors are mostly used for Drag and should give good results at a track the most practical and more efficient for daily driving is a 3 phase induction motor with no magnets. A 3 phase PMAC machine would really work but the issue is construction of one for a diy is very hazardous as the rare earth can smash an appendage etc. The challenge running three phase is the inverter must be much more sophisticated than one to drive a brushed motors with a basic h bridge. I think I want to do this with the '77 242. I need to gather more pieces. Here are the cells you might use and they be series strapped to 120volts minimum but id prefer a full 480 to lower the amperage requirement. I have a old friend who is a motor designer from Germany Ive been working with him and the Dr. at NC State on revolutionary high efficiency electric motor windings. I've been deep in this research for the last 10 years. The other option is an in wheel hub design. The external rotor machine can be used effectively for that type of drive system. At mercedes benz we do something quite different than all of this in the arrow AQ. The new motors will be fractionally slotted concentrated winds for there compactness ease of manufacture and better copper fill potential the issue is the space harmonics the slots create. They lower the power factor and efficiency of the machines and generate heat. The new winds Ive learned from the Dr Sariful Islam at NC state DEECS (ABB corporate research center on campus) attenuate or totally eliminate these harmonics that create eddy current rotor losses and winding losses created by the zero order circulating currents of a delta machine. The delta is desired as it has a higher power density than a wye wound machine. The new winds are hybrid wye - delta serially connected. The wye machine act like a variable load reactor. I have here a lamination that was designed by ATE. This is who provides the porsche e lemans machine powerplant. Im probably the only one in the world with a lamination in hand to build such an external rotor e machine for the car. The Cars will move to a new 48 volt design patent by drs Dieter Gerling and Dajaku Guruquk it is called the ISCAD. Intelligent stator cage design. This thing can change pole counts on the fly. Different pole slot combinations render different results. Some would be better for high speed and others torque the design intuitively select what best for the current driving situation. It is a very high current machine that runs at only 48 volts to produce the kW a high performance an e car would need

Here's what a hybrid induction motor looks like and the configuration of the coils in it for high efficiency. There's alot more to explain but I don't wanna get too crazy at this point. One thing to note is that the rpm of a induction machine is based on a 60 or 50 hz frequency but you can vary its speed by using a variable frequency drive aka VFD

Here's on I have 7.5kW and plan to use with a rotary phase converter for the shop to vary induction motor speeds. Its brings 240 3 phase to the shop tools. The drives have acel and dcel ramps current limiters etc. Even low pass filtering that mitigates some of the harmonics I mentioned previously. Ill show you the 49 Volt ISCAD design next. In the meantime enjoy my first handhed y-d winding prototype . it is one of the only ones in existence in the world. There is another in Cambridge UK and 1 or two in Germany. That's it!

Regards
Hubert

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Old 05-07-2021, 10:18 AM   #11
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The wye - delta series connection used for it is this.

If you pulled this off in a motor of an appropriate size you will have TESLA grade motor tech in your brick. Dr Gerlings principles are all throughout Elons rotating machines. Prius is Dr Hendershot and I have all that data and photos as well



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Old 05-07-2021, 10:23 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by JohnMc View Post
I'll wait until Chevy makes that 800 hp 'e-COPO' motor that bolts right in where an LS motor was.
Thats been available for a while, the e-copo was not the first... I personally built that motor. Also the motors for the Genovation GXE, LS platform Z06's, and the E-Cobra Jet. All of those motors came across my bench.

www.cascadiamotion.com (Formerly AMRacing and Rhinehart Motion Systems)

We design, manufacture, and support a pretty good array of motors, inverters, gearboxes, couplings, and are coming out with battery modules and BMS/Charging systems in the next year or so. I'm just the motor and gearbox assembly guy, but I have personally built and tested every motor and gearbox that has left our facility over the last 4 years.

There's a "EV Bot" calculator on our website. Our GM was the head of BorgWarner's Turbo division and the lead on the EFR project lineup, including the E--Turbo EFR series. So naturally he likes to give user configuration tools out to the masses to aid in getting the right thing to the right person.

If custom parts, adapters, bellhousing plates are needed, our sales team can help putting things into perspective.
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:25 AM   #13
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Here an example on how much more elaborate the bridges become to drive FSCW motors with low harmonics and tripplen currents. This is to drive a in wheel hub motor with open ended winding coils wound this way

.
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:27 AM   #14
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The thesis I will be working on when I go to grad school with be cooling the motor directly in the air gap with ferrofluid, This is cutting edge trust me. When u keep the motor cool the throughput power increases dramatically the ferrofluid increases the thermal conductivity by a factor of 4 allowing the machine to radiate its heat out much more effectively. You could also used compressed gas like nitrous or co2 for cryogenic reactions. That will definitely cool things.




Regards
Hubert

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Old 05-07-2021, 10:34 AM   #15
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We can do something no one has done yet in a volvo. The world is moving this way. Get into it....
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:41 AM   #16
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I built a motor for a e-1800. Made right about 900hp on my dyno. Theyre set up to put down about 522kw (~700hp) peak burst, with about 400kw continuous with their battery bank and inverter setup. If they pushed it to 800v, I wouldnt expect to see it put down less than 900hp to the wheels.

http://evolvproject.com/
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:43 AM   #17
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I built a motor for a e-1800. Made right about 900hp on my dyno. Theyre set up to put down about 522kw (~700hp) peak burst, with about 400kw continuous with their battery bank and inverter setup. If they pushed it to 800v, I wouldnt expect to see it put down less than 900hp to the wheels.

http://evolvproject.com/

what were the torque numbers?

Here are the cells were using right now actually for car stereo but these are true ev cells. U have to set up a balanced charge system to keep them living for years. 5 in series here with copper busses.

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Old 05-07-2021, 11:11 AM   #18
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Our signature "Dual Stack" runs around 800-850 nm on the shaft. Depending on the power electronics and Voltage behind it, you can expect to see full torque up to about 8000rpm. At 800v I'd say that 900hp is the easy number. If you can keep your electronics cool, 950hp on the shaft isnt outside the capabilities of the motor. They also have the ability to rev (at higher DC BUS voltage) to 11-12,000 rpm. Being Liquid cooled, they will take that beating a lot, especially if your cooling components can keep the oil at optimum temp.
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:20 AM   #19
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Nice...Dual stack? stators or complete machines in tandem? In tandem u may be able to tie a wye and delta motor in series as long as the wye coils are left open ended. This allows for harmonic mitigation and one inverter for two machines. The windings and current capabilities would need to be matched in the machines at a winding ratio of the square root of 3. and sqrrt3/2 if you start paralleling coils. U can also tie two wyes together serially as long as one is wound with open ended coils but there will be no harmonic attenuation with that just two wye motors running off one inverter. I will send you some papers if you are building the machines. U see the ATE design inspired lamination here in the photo. No one has this. Its was sent direct from my colleague who holds several patents in motor and fuel cell design and well as aircraft instrumentation. We are not eye to eye about some other issues currently. However this was a gift from him.

Regards
Hubert

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Old 05-07-2021, 11:32 AM   #20
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:40 AM   #21
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[CENTER]The thesis I will be working on when I go to grad school with be cooling the motor directly in the air gap...


Regards
Hubert
Sounds Like what DHX has been doing for a while.
https://www.dhxmachines.com/
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:42 AM   #22
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So is the hot junkyard style ticket to still get your hands on a Chevy Bolt battery pack? Seems like they're easier to fit into a 'legacy' type car. Designed from scratch EV's seem to have that whole skateboard thing going, not an easy retrofit, unless you just sort of perch some random car body on top and take it on a ride.
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:44 AM   #23
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Yes but there's plenty of work left to do as they haven't made all the relevant correlations to frequency and windage yet. I wont cant share them at this point as they are my thesis. My design also does not submerge the entire machine in coolant but rather isolating it to only the gap

Heres a photo of on e of my stators cooled to -29 celcius cryogenically. This was a simple table top test with compressed butane. You could use C02 or nitrous for the same reactions.
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:48 AM   #24
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Yes but there's plenty of work left to do as they haven't made all the relevant correlations to frequency and windage yet. I wont cant share them at this point as they are my thesis. My design also does not submerge the entire machine in coolant but rather isolating it to only the gap

Heres a photo of on e of my stators cooled to -29 celcius.
DHX only cools the outer coils/gaps. They don't spray cool the inner rotor.

Being able to change the # of poles is really neat, especially if you can reduce back EMF at higher speeds.
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:49 AM   #25
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ISCAD yes I think Tesla will end up there. Dr Gerling had to sever ties with me because I work for benz so that points to him working with Tesla.
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