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Old 05-07-2011, 06:25 PM   #1
Karl Buchka
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Default Wasted spark on LH2.4 with stock EZK

Update 08/19/11

Group buy is up. http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?p=3883351

Update 05/11/11

The circuit has successfully been tested on a 940 Turbo. The car fired up and ran cleanly with no apparent issues. I need to do some more testing of my own before I send out any boards. I'll keep this updated until that time.

I've also posted the first-cut source code here: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpo...7&postcount=84

Original post:

There was a thread posted a few days ago talking about options for ditching the distributor on an otherwise stock LH2.4 equipped car which got me thinking. Alex and I have been playing with this for the last day or so and we've made some good progress.



We got an EZK 146 box and tapped in to the VR conditioner circuit and the spark output. Those signals are sent to a microcontroller running a wheel decoder program that counts teeth and redirects the stock spark signal to two outputs. Here's what it looks like on the scope:



Channel 1 is the output from the stock EZK VR conditioner being fed a 4kHz sinewave with two periods missing every 58 periods (this simulates a 60-2 trigger wheel running at 4000RPM), channel 2 is the stock trigger output signal, and the other two channels is the stock signal after being split.

We've tested the circuit on the bench from 100rpm to 10000rpm with no apparent faults.

What this essentially means is you can install this circuit in your otherwise bone stock LH2.4 car, wire up a wasted spark coil, and be up and running. The main catch here is that stock dwell is retained, meaning we need to find a wasted spark coil with similar dwell characteristics to what's stock. The Bosch Motorsport 4 cylinder wasted spark coil looks to be very close and is what we'll be testing this with first. A friend of ours has a 940 Turbo that we'll be testing this on in a few days.

Piping a cam sync to this chip for full sequential would be fairly trivial.

If this works and there's any interest I might have a run of circuit boards made up. Questions, comments?

Last edited by Karl Buchka; 08-19-2011 at 05:57 AM..
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Old 05-07-2011, 06:30 PM   #2
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That's some nice work. I think that's just what the stock injection needed. Some much better spark energy in the EZK system.
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Old 05-07-2011, 06:33 PM   #3
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Haha, nice find. What made you guys think about this?

wy not go the megasquirt route?
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Old 05-07-2011, 06:49 PM   #4
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count me in man!
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Old 05-07-2011, 06:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by B-lennium View Post
Haha, nice find. What made you guys think about this?

wy not go the megasquirt route?
Don't get me wrong, I'll be the first person to ditch stock stuff, but some people don't want to deal with MS. I'm all for giving people options and this is potentially a simple way to upgrade your stock ignition system.
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Old 05-07-2011, 06:56 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'll be the first person to ditch stock stuff, but some people don't want to deal with MS. I'm all for giving people options and this is potentially a simple way to upgrade your stock ignition system.
thats a good outlook on things man!

you going to get some sort of kit together?
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Old 05-07-2011, 07:08 PM   #7
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*subscribes*

Guess i'd better get cracking on making a dwell adjustment for the EZK.

I wonder how difficult it would be to modify the code in the EZK to use a second output, and toggle them in sequence? The CPU has a bunch of i/o pins, I don't think they ALL are used.

*paging ipdown to thread*

Either way, good work guys!
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:28 AM   #8
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thats a good outlook on things man!

you going to get some sort of kit together?
Thanks. I haven't decided how to do it yet. I'll probably get some boards made up, but beyond that I'm not sure.

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*subscribes*

Guess i'd better get cracking on making a dwell adjustment for the EZK.

I wonder how difficult it would be to modify the code in the EZK to use a second output, and toggle them in sequence? The CPU has a bunch of i/o pins, I don't think they ALL are used.

*paging ipdown to thread*

Either way, good work guys!
Thanks, appreciate it.

If you find a spare output pin I don't imagine it would be terribly difficult to split the signal that way. This board might just be an interim solution, but so far I like the idea of not requiring any software mods at all.

Are you up on if there are any un-used pins on the EZK connector? Pin 25 looks promising, but I'd like one more. It would be nice not to have a bunch of wires coming out of the back of the box.
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:05 AM   #9
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Nice find, keep us posted!
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:10 AM   #10
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that is pretty damn baller. plenty of people with 2.4 who are pushing the stock stuff who would eat this up when you get it working. i'd be rocking 2.4 if i had a car that came with it in good shape/etc and didn't want to do too much destruction to it
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:10 AM   #11
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you guys are sort of a big deal. Great work!
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:23 AM   #12
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Nice work guys!

I have a few Bosch 2x2 Motorsport/Alfa coils and the associated double powerstages, bought for exactly this purpose. I might have some spares, need anything?

A good spark is what really is lacking on a stock-ish ignition system. Every now and then I need to clean the corrosion of the contacts in the dizzy, there must be quite a bit of energy loss there.
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Old 05-08-2011, 07:11 PM   #13
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Nice work guys!

I have a few Bosch 2x2 Motorsport/Alfa coils and the associated double powerstages, bought for exactly this purpose. I might have some spares, need anything?

A good spark is what really is lacking on a stock-ish ignition system. Every now and then I need to clean the corrosion of the contacts in the dizzy, there must be quite a bit of energy loss there.
Thanks for the offer, but I think I'm all set for the time being. I've got a Bosch 2x2 coil and a couple of ignition drivers I had left over from a VEMS install. If/when I get this working I might need help with some more long-term testing if you're interested.
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Old 05-08-2011, 07:28 PM   #14
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Cool stuff, is the EZK tunable? If not, I don't see the point in it (or people being afraid of MS) but it's certainly cool.
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:33 PM   #15
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sweet. I'll help test this on the mule.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:09 PM   #16
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man within the last few months lh2.4 went from crap to amazing potential. Im starting to get excited lol.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:58 PM   #17
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EZK is absolutely tunable. The software is unfortunately obtuse however. Know any 8051/8052 assembly experts? Will they take bribes?

I think the best shot is using an EZK with the EGR hardware (goldbox for example). Pin 15 could probably be adapted to drive a second ignition driver. Non-EGR EZKs are physically different; they lack a few components present on the EGR onces. At least the gold box that I have has a few extra transistors than my other 3 EZKs.

Ipdown and I have been going over the EZK and trying to piece together a rough idea of the actual pinout in relation to the CPU and onboard logic... but I might just try and write a test program to toggle all the outputs and check pin states.

Either way, I won't say that modifying the code onboard would be trivial, but so long as the EGR control output can be manipulated via CPU logic it is "possible".

I'd say that you guys have a much higher probability of successfully completing a piggyback controller before the EZK is software moddable to do wasted spark.

Just make sure you share you code so I can steal it and re-use it for fun and profit
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:06 PM   #18
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Sweet. I'm in!
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:07 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
Thanks for the offer, but I think I'm all set for the time being. I've got a Bosch 2x2 coil and a couple of ignition drivers I had left over from a VEMS install. If/when I get this working I might need help with some more long-term testing if you're interested.
Ok sounds like you have the parts covered, let me know if anything changes, it is yours for shipping. I'll gladly help with more testing of course!
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:10 AM   #20
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Great work! I too believe that will not only bring lh 2.4 to almost modern age but also make it quite fun again. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:14 AM   #21
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beepee, none of the two boxes I have are from EGR cars. Do you have any decent pics of an EGR EZK? I have a 146 that looks identical to the one you just posted pics of (on-board part number ending in 169-2), and a 148 pulled from a B230FK 940 with a part number ending in 169-3II.

I was thinking of cutting a couple of traces to free up some pins, but I just poked around some more with my multimeter and all the EGR-related pins look ripe for the taking. Assuming someone wants to keep their EGR means pin 25 is a possible candidate (tied to ground, but a quick slice would fix that).

Here's the datasheet for the LM2903N that converts the VR signal to a square wave: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM193.pdf
It looks like both comparators are being used, but I've only scoped output B, so I don't know if A does anything.

Here's where I'm pulling my wires:


There are pads for both the spark output and the VR conditioner output, but they're ****ing tiny, so I just attached my leads straight to those component legs.

I was thinking of stripping an EZK board completely and scanning it to get the traces mapped out. Unfortunately I can't afford to waste either of the two boxes I have, so that will have to wait.

I'll definitely post the code once it's in a working state. I'm using AVR-GCC and an ATmega168. Be warned though, I'm a hobbyist at best and I only picked up AVR programming a few weeks ago. If the wheel decoder I wrote turns out to be total trash I might post it up to get opinions on a better solution.

linuxman, JW, dalek, thanks for the offers. This will definitely need testing, so I'll keep you posted!
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:20 AM   #22
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this would be a very useable upgrade for the LPG crowd.
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:05 AM   #23
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I have an EZK which I've already heatgunned the CPU from; I will donate that to science and remove the rest of the components when I have some time. It's a N/A EZK, but as far as I can tell the PCBs are the same.

Here's one photo of the EGR (goldbox/207) EZK that I have on hand, I will take more soon. Kinda re-organizing the hobby area downstairs so might not be tonight.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2074311/Ezk%...dbox%20egr.jpg

You can see a few of the missing components are stuffed near the connector/heatsink area. It would be nice if the EGR output could be used "as-is" to drive another power stage or something similar. Not enough info yet.
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:16 AM   #24
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Can help coding/debugging avr code, have a lot of experience with atmel avr. After wheel decoder routine is made stable it could be ported to some really cheap and small 8pin dip attiny - after all it needs two inputs and two outputs only. Dwell could be adjusted in the avr too. Also, in EZK dwell should be adjustable via map.
We just have to find it

Btw, started tracing the pcb, will post later some i/o stuff that matters, we don't need full schematic anyway.
If someone could track the ??? marked chip from the pic would be really nice
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:32 AM   #25
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Cool stuff Karl!

Yeah, I started the thread about the possibility of using something like wasted spark on 2.2 so this isn't really useful to me, but it's killer stuff nonetheless.
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