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Redblock power, or 7mgte power?

Keep the Redblock or go Toyota Powerhouse straight 6?

  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
If this is why you stay away from forums, it would be nice if others who want to only chew the rag would follow suit as well.

Like it has already been pointed out, the purpose of this thread isn't to find advice, it's to find affirmation of your idea. Redblocks are nothing new. 600+whp has been done numerous times, and it has been documented what it takes to get there. Asking something that has been answered numerous times won't get you far within a resource that is easily searchable.

Furthermore, ironically having been pointed out in this thread too, stating some odd arbitrary horsepower number is the first indication that you really don't have much of an idea what exactly you want or have experience with. A vast majority of those who ask about engine swaps don't have the aptitude to carry out the task.

Since you're new here, this is why you get asked who you are. Because to this very small community, as a new member that has made zero contribution, you're just another person who just talks a big game without actually doing anything.
 
I didn't realize I paid someone else to do my swaps for me, no wonder all of that has always been such a blur..
 
TurboSvagonTank said:
This is why I stay away from forums for the most part. Yes, actually I have driven a 400hp redblock car owned by a friend. but before he hit 400whp, he was dyno'd at 308?whp if memory serves and we raced, I didn't lose by much, is why I said est. 275whp. Next off, I have no requirement on this forum to say who I am or what my experience is... But alas, I will anyway.

My name is Shaun, I live in San Tan Valley Arizona, 31yo Father of twin boys (6yo). I grew up in a motorhead family and high Hp cars have always been my life. Ive been wrenching since I was 8yo with my father. I have at my disposal roughly $100k in tools and machines between me and my father to build and do whatever the **** I want. Body work, Engine work, sandblasting if I see fit... This also includes a 2 post lift so I'm not crawling on the ground or paying someone else to do it for me like most of you. I have personally had 550+whp cars in my life, unlike most of you.

This post was literally so I could learn about the Volvo redblock and see what you guys estimate it could handle. I know what my 7MGTE can take. So please before you go doubting someone, or thinking that I'm some dumbass 20yo kid, please just be courteous. Its not hard.

Next off, why 600hp? Personally I like to reach a point with HP to just **** with higher end cars in my area... Z06 Vettes, CTSV's, Ferrari's from time to time. Just love seeing their faces when they lose to a Yota or now a Volvo grandma wagon. Priceless.
Click to expand...

Okie dokie Shaun, now you're a human, instead of a total wanker teenager or a stoner dreamer in Portland or an anonymous name. Some us us who build things don't have a lot of patience for 18 year old boys from the burbs who think they can learn everything on a forum and then next post are flummoxed by changing an alternator belt..

Answer: B23 with good rods and lighter than stock forged pistons, it can take it.
B230 with some kind of steel crank. 600 is not just do-able but been done...I have a nice dyno sheet from one guy in Sweden I supplied rods, pistons, flywheel and he did the rest locally and it make 662hp and he said "Ran like a clock, used it nearly every week end drag racing for full year with no problems.."

The info is out there, the best of it in the right language for a Volvo, Swedish, but some of us :) lived and worked there in the trade and still maintain contact ( I have in my car right now a steel flywheel going to some place out east and 5 steel full circle cam cores for a n.a. 16v project in Sweden..)(and 2 going to Chicago)

HERE however you'll find mostly only generally "helpful" info and a lotta disillusioned guys --mostly guys who dreamt big then didn't finish their builds and then express doubt that anybody can finish a build because they couldn't..

So you want to build?

In before: The stock B230 have cast iron fully counterweighted cranks..Pretty good for 99% of the guys here..
For 600 hp I want steel..And a steel flywheel probably with 2 disc..
Large bore engine (anything bigger than 86mm) I want no more than max 8:1. But for 600, probably less..
16v head with 37-39mm intake valves..
Custom cams--steel billets...Knox Motorsport still has cores I made for them years ago
Make life easy: blob a bunch of weld on the roof of the intake port so you can raise the port rood by ~~3mm*
Reduce reciprocating weight...

*Nice piccies on-line..and flow charts from one of the best Volvo guys in the world for porting...
 
Last edited:
Harlard said:
Hey now
Click to expand...

hahaha......

I can barely get a stock 110hp redblock together, but why would someone want to get 600hp from a 4 cylinder when a 6 would be easier and less stressful on the motor? Of course why not go an 8 like an LS based motor, way easier and less stress on the motor.
 
Mueller said:
hahaha......

I can barely get a stock 110hp redblock together, but why would someone want to get 600hp from a 4 cylinder when a 6 would be easier and less stressful on the motor? Of course why not go an 8 like an LS based motor, way easier and less stress on the motor.
Click to expand...

Ok since you asked: maybe a guy want the particularly excellent rate of delivery a turbo 4 gives when done intelligently.

Maybe a guy knows its not HP and in particular peak HP that is the decisive thing in how a car goes but the interplay between the shape of the power curve, the gears in the gearbox and the final drive...

Just to use some easily available samples, the current Whirled rally Champignonskit cars are 1,6 liter.. There's an 8500 rpm limit, the turbo compressor wheel max diameter is 70mm
I think the bore on all is right at 84mm---so there's room for bigger valves that if was like many production 1,6 motors with bores in the 76-78mm range...bigger bore, more room..
and we all knopw the the amount of power any engine can make is defined/limited by the total circumference---not area as I have said for 30 years--- total circumference of its intake valves..

(Think of some ship motor like that 850 liter, 10,500 HP thing I was sub-contracted to be in on the rebuild 20 years ago..60 degree V20, 4 valve pushrod, twin turbo, 660rpm diesel...If that motor had little 44mm intakes valves it wouldn't matter how big it was, would it?)

Those rally motors at little 1,6 with less than 2 bar boost (3 bar absolute) scoot those cars (min weight 1230kg empty) pretty darn good..

maybe 350--360 hp..Who knows what for torque, but sh!t tons...
1230 kg is 2706 lbs...
But they go like stink because engine powercurve, gearbox AND final drive work together..

As for the 7MGTE, I'm sure everybody here is intimately familiar with its bore and valve sizes...
But somebody want to do some math (I'm in the middle of a great book) on what the valve circumference is on the 7MGTE vs the B234 with 39mm intake valves?

What? You guys don't know the valve size on the Toiletta--and yet you're convince its better and would be less stressed?
Give you a hint cause I'm such a generous guy..

Its the size of the B234 exhaust valve...enough hint?

Shirley you guys must know these sizes if you're making opinions on the various engines....otherwise it'd all be flapdoodle...

Do some calculations of total intake circumference...then valve curtain area for say 11mm lift for Volvo, and 8,5mm lift for Toiletta..

It should be interesting..
 
John V said:
Ok since you asked: maybe a guy want the particularly excellent rate of delivery a turbo 4 gives when done intelligently.

Maybe a guy knows its not HP and in particular peak HP that is the decisive thing in how a car goes but the interplay between the shape of the power curve, the gears in the gearbox and the final drive...

Just to use some easily available samples, the current Whirled rally Champignonskit cars are 1,6 liter.. There's an 8500 rpm limit, the turbo compressor wheel max diameter is 70mm
I think the bore on all is right at 84mm---so there's room for bigger valves that if was like many production 1,6 motors with bores in the 76-78mm range...bigger bore, more room..
and we all knopw the the amount of power any engine can make is defined/limited by the total circumference---not area as I have said for 30 years--- total circumference of its intake valves..

(Think of some ship motor like that 850 liter, 10,500 HP thing I was sub-contracted to be in on the rebuild 20 years ago..60 degree V20, 4 valve pushrod, twin turbo, 660rpm diesel...If that motor had little 44mm intakes valves it wouldn't matter how big it was, would it?)

Those rally motors at little 1,6 with less than 2 bar boost (3 bar absolute) scoot those cars (min weight 1230kg empty) pretty darn good..

maybe 350--360 hp..Who knows what for torque, but sh!t tons...
1230 kg is 2706 lbs...
But they go like stink because engine powercurve, gearbox AND final drive work together..

As for the 7MGTE, I'm sure everybody here is intimately familiar with its bore and valve sizes...
But somebody want to do some math (I'm in the middle of a great book) on what the valve circumference is on the 7MGTE vs the B234 with 39mm intake valves?

What? You guys don't know the valve size on the Toiletta--and yet you're convince its better and would be less stressed?
Give you a hint cause I'm such a generous guy..

Its the size of the B234 exhaust valve...enough hint?

Shirley you guys must know these sizes if you're making opinions on the various engines....otherwise it'd all be flapdoodle...

Do some calculations of total intake circumference...then valve curtain area for say 11mm lift for Volvo, and 8,5mm lift for Toiletta..

It should be interesting..
Click to expand...

Just V8 swap it
 
John V said:
Ok since you asked: maybe a guy want the particularly excellent rate of delivery a turbo 4 gives when done intelligently.

Maybe a guy knows its not HP and in particular peak HP that is the decisive thing in how a car goes but the interplay between the shape of the power curve, the gears in the gearbox and the final drive...

Just to use some easily available samples, the current Whirled rally Champignonskit cars are 1,6 liter.. There's an 8500 rpm limit, the turbo compressor wheel max diameter is 70mm
I think the bore on all is right at 84mm---so there's room for bigger valves that if was like many production 1,6 motors with bores in the 76-78mm range...bigger bore, more room..
and we all knopw the the amount of power any engine can make is defined/limited by the total circumference---not area as I have said for 30 years--- total circumference of its intake valves..

(Think of some ship motor like that 850 liter, 10,500 HP thing I was sub-contracted to be in on the rebuild 20 years ago..60 degree V20, 4 valve pushrod, twin turbo, 660rpm diesel...If that motor had little 44mm intakes valves it wouldn't matter how big it was, would it?)

Those rally motors at little 1,6 with less than 2 bar boost (3 bar absolute) scoot those cars (min weight 1230kg empty) pretty darn good..

maybe 350--360 hp..Who knows what for torque, but sh!t tons...
1230 kg is 2706 lbs...
But they go like stink because engine powercurve, gearbox AND final drive work together..

As for the 7MGTE, I'm sure everybody here is intimately familiar with its bore and valve sizes...
But somebody want to do some math (I'm in the middle of a great book) on what the valve circumference is on the 7MGTE vs the B234 with 39mm intake valves?

What? You guys don't know the valve size on the Toiletta--and yet you're convince its better and would be less stressed?
Give you a hint cause I'm such a generous guy..

Its the size of the B234 exhaust valve...enough hint?

Shirley you guys must know these sizes if you're making opinions on the various engines....otherwise it'd all be flapdoodle...

Do some calculations of total intake circumference...then valve curtain area for say 11mm lift for Volvo, and 8,5mm lift for Toiletta..

It should be interesting..
Click to expand...

+1 for V8 swap
 
I mean the relative math is simple if the stated goal is a wagon that beats other locals...

do you want the engine that stock makes ~100hp before being turbocharged (b230ft)
the engine that makes ~180ish hp before being turbocharged (7m-gte) -oh and has to be completely rebuilt...

or, an engine that makes between 285 and 315hp before being turbocharged? and needs no fancy head/bottom end work to get well past your goals
 
Keep it simple, keep it stock.

A 600 hp redblock will be full of $$$$ parts and cost a lot. And it likely is not going to make 50K miles of 600 hp use, probably not even 20K (unless you drive it around off boost almost all the time, which isn't really the point of a 600 hp car). If you blow it up, $$$$ went with it.

A 600 hp 7m-gte will also be full of $$$$ parts to help it hold together. If you blow it up, $$$$ blew up with it.

But a junkyard LS? Don't touch the bottom end, just pull one from a van/suv/pickup in the junkyard, hose off the grease, swap the cam, and bolt on some turbos. Doesn't take much boost to turn 300 NA hp into 600 forced induction HP's. And if you get a bum motor and it blows up, swing by the junkyard again, $$$. If you mess up on the tuning and blow it up, swing by the junkyard, another $$$. If you want reliability, a 300 hp motor that occasionally makes 600 hp is going to last a lot longer than a 100 hp motor that occasionally makes 600 hp. Plus, JohnV was talking about peak HP vs. area under the curve, and I think a 300 hp motor that spools into a modest amount of boost is going to work better in pretty much any situation than a 100 hp motor that has to spool up a huge turbo.
 
I would say that is a lot of power. Did you do any dyno tuning? Are you dragging subs, amps, and a full interior? I so, I would say a diet would be a cheaper, and more reliable. 1 hp for every 11 pounds, or so. That will also help stopping and turning. That would be my 2 cents..
 
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