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Old 12-02-2019, 02:58 PM   #1
woodsracer
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Default Which engine/chassis would you choose?

Hey guys, new to these forums and still new to Volvo. In terms or Swedish engineering, I have owned 3 SAABs over the years (2 prior to GM "influence") and have loved them, and have also had a 2012 S60 T6 which had a great motor but I disliked the auto trans and the chassis was sloppy (was stock and had 100k on it so not necessarily the fault of the car). I have since sold that, still have a SAAB 9-5 wagon but am looking to do a Volvo build. SAAB has frustrated me and the Volvo 5 cylinder turbos are unique and very cool in my book, so on to Volvo perhaps. I have drooled over the boxy Swedish style for a long time and it's time to do something - I am really into the 700/900 series look but like the 200 series, 850, and later stuff like the S90 as well, all in sedan and wagon versions but may prefer sedan for this. I'm lurking around reading as much as I can but there's a lot of info here and I am a bit overwhelmed. That said, here's what I'd like to do:

I'd like to build a turbo straight 5 to somewhere in the neighborhood of 350-400 whp with a manual 5 speed using Volvo parts (for the most part). Would it make the most sense to start with one of the 2.3 straight 5's like the B5234T? My neighbor has a non running '95 850 turbo I can swoop up for a few hundred bucks as a starting point if this is the right path. I've read from you guys the pistons are alright up to around 400 hp but you need rods? Can anyone point the way to some rod kits for these/similar motors so I can get an idea on investment? It's said that Volvo parts are very expensive (I assume these points are mostly regarding OEM), is this true for the older mid-90s models OEM and how about aftermarket? I needed an alternator for the S60 and OEM was around $1200 which I thought was completely insane. May be similar to Audi and Mercedes I don't know.

My intention is to swap a built motor into a RWD 700/900 or possibly 200 series, but if it's hard to find a nice donor car or options are limited, I'll get by with a FWD (ie. keep the 850 is that's the route I go). AWD is enticing but those systems are mostly safety oriented vs performance, right? Mainly FWD anyway? Not sure if AWD would make much difference with that much power, plus the rear end mods that would be necessary? Could someone expand on the models that one of the better suited turbo motors would fit in without major fabrication? I'm worried about engine/trans mount compatibility, I could weld mounting points but would like to avoid major fab if possible - are there kits for fitment like this? My main interest is doing the engine build itself - one of the major reasons for pursuing all this is to expand my engine building capabilities, I have done a lot of work in the past but never done anything bottom end. For the 700/900 and maybe 200 series is it easy to fit manual transmissions from other Volvo models? What manual transmissions works best for higher power output and what mods are needed other than clutch? What are the best handling (or easiest to get handling good) out of the 200, 700, 850, 900 series? I assume not the 200 but there seem to be a lot of good available parts.

So in a long winded way, my question for this crowd is really if you could do a 350 to 400 hp (maybe higher) build with a straight 5, manual trans, going into any of the available chassis, what would you do if budget and spare time is a definite consideration? What motor and manual trans, what mods, and what chassis would you choose?
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:25 PM   #2
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since you like 700/900 styling, get the best turbo with a manual you can find.
no point in engine swapping until you are dead sure 300+ with some minor mods that need no fab skills isn't enough.

as for all the other questions, start reading this forum, you need to figure out what you want after learning more.
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:30 PM   #3
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Iíve never personally done it, but have done lots of research. Easiest option I see would be to get a 960, s90, or v90 with the inline 6 in it. Find one of those, scoop up the 850, scrap the car and put forged conrods at the very least in it. Youíll have to mix and match some parts from the 5cyl and the 6cyl, including cutting a cylinders worth out of the 6cyl oil pan and pickup tube. Once the motor is ready, it should be a direct drop in (maybe having to play with motor mount brackets, but between both cars you should be covered)

If you can find an m90 transmission, thatíd be the best volvo transmission to use, but idk how much power and torque they like. Probably be better to do a t5 transmission or getrag or something.

Stay away from the 2.5L engines, weak cylinder liners have been reported to give problems in abused, stock setups. The 2.4 is a little better, but the 2.3 should be fine for your power level. Thatís the way Iíd go.

Someone correct me if Iím incorrect in any of this, itís been several months since I researched and mostly going off memory
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Old 12-02-2019, 05:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsracer View Post
Hey guys, new to these forums and still new to Volvo. In terms or Swedish engineering, I have owned 3 SAABs over the years (2 prior to GM "influence") and have loved them, and have also had a 2012 S60 T6 which had a great motor but I disliked the auto trans and the chassis was sloppy (was stock and had 100k on it so not necessarily the fault of the car). I have since sold that, still have a SAAB 9-5 wagon but am looking to do a Volvo build. SAAB has frustrated me and the Volvo 5 cylinder turbos are unique and very cool in my book, so on to Volvo perhaps. I have drooled over the boxy Swedish style for a long time and it's time to do something - I am really into the 700/900 series look but like the 200 series, 850, and later stuff like the S90 as well, all in sedan and wagon versions but may prefer sedan for this. I'm lurking around reading as much as I can but there's a lot of info here and I am a bit overwhelmed. That said, here's what I'd like to do:

I'd like to build a turbo straight 5 to somewhere in the neighborhood of 350-400 whp with a manual 5 speed using Volvo parts (for the most part). Would it make the most sense to start with one of the 2.3 straight 5's like the B5234T? My neighbor has a non running '95 850 turbo I can swoop up for a few hundred bucks as a starting point if this is the right path. I've read from you guys the pistons are alright up to around 400 hp but you need rods? Can anyone point the way to some rod kits for these/similar motors so I can get an idea on investment? It's said that Volvo parts are very expensive (I assume these points are mostly regarding OEM), is this true for the older mid-90s models OEM and how about aftermarket? I needed an alternator for the S60 and OEM was around $1200 which I thought was completely insane. May be similar to Audi and Mercedes I don't know.

My intention is to swap a built motor into a RWD 700/900 or possibly 200 series, but if it's hard to find a nice donor car or options are limited, I'll get by with a FWD (ie. keep the 850 is that's the route I go). AWD is enticing but those systems are mostly safety oriented vs performance, right? Mainly FWD anyway? Not sure if AWD would make much difference with that much power, plus the rear end mods that would be necessary? Could someone expand on the models that one of the better suited turbo motors would fit in without major fabrication? I'm worried about engine/trans mount compatibility, I could weld mounting points but would like to avoid major fab if possible - are there kits for fitment like this? My main interest is doing the engine build itself - one of the major reasons for pursuing all this is to expand my engine building capabilities, I have done a lot of work in the past but never done anything bottom end. For the 700/900 and maybe 200 series is it easy to fit manual transmissions from other Volvo models? What manual transmissions works best for higher power output and what mods are needed other than clutch? What are the best handling (or easiest to get handling good) out of the 200, 700, 850, 900 series? I assume not the 200 but there seem to be a lot of good available parts.

So in a long winded way, my question for this crowd is really if you could do a 350 to 400 hp (maybe higher) build with a straight 5, manual trans, going into any of the available chassis, what would you do if budget and spare time is a definite consideration? What motor and manual trans, what mods, and what chassis would you choose?


Why the name "woodsracer"??
Cause this is what many mean when they say that..


Or maybe this.

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Old 12-02-2019, 07:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by apachechef View Post
since you like 700/900 styling, get the best turbo with a manual you can find.
no point in engine swapping until you are dead sure 300+ with some minor mods that need no fab skills isn't enough.
Point taken, but the 4 cylinders are really not interesting to me. Would not be a bad idea to start this way and then figure out what motor to swap in, so I see that perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesdunns70t5m View Post
Iíve never personally done it, but have done lots of research. Easiest option I see would be to get a 960, s90, or v90 with the inline 6 in it. Find one of those, scoop up the 850, scrap the car and put forged conrods at the very least in it. Youíll have to mix and match some parts from the 5cyl and the 6cyl, including cutting a cylinders worth out of the 6cyl oil pan and pickup tube. Once the motor is ready, it should be a direct drop in (maybe having to play with motor mount brackets, but between both cars you should be covered)

If you can find an m90 transmission, thatíd be the best volvo transmission to use, but idk how much power and torque they like. Probably be better to do a t5 transmission or getrag or something.

Stay away from the 2.5L engines, weak cylinder liners have been reported to give problems in abused, stock setups. The 2.4 is a little better, but the 2.3 should be fine for your power level. Thatís the way Iíd go.

Someone correct me if Iím incorrect in any of this, itís been several months since I researched and mostly going off memory
So the 2.3 5 cyl and M90 trans should be a (close to) direct bolt on to a 900 series that came with a straight 6? Did not understand what you meant about swapping engine parts between the 5 and 6 cyl motors, does the subframe damand use of the 6 cylinder oil pan or something? Not sure how you would cut an oil pan and get it to seal.

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Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
Why the name "woodsracer"??
Cause this is what many mean when they say that..

Or maybe this.
I race enduros and hare scrambles, currently racing a '17 Husqvarna 250 2-stroke. I also road race a Triumph 675 triple. If there were any real rally series out this way I would be racing cars in the woods too

--------

So from what you guys are saying, a good route would be to use an 850 turbo 5 motor, an M90 manual, and transplant into a 900 series?
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:31 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by woodsracer View Post
Point taken, but the 4 cylinders are really not interesting to me. Would not be a bad idea to start this way and then figure out what motor to swap in, so I see that perspective.



So the 2.3 5 cyl and M90 trans should be a (close to) direct bolt on to a 900 series that came with a straight 6? Did not understand what you meant about swapping engine parts between the 5 and 6 cyl motors, does the subframe damand use of the 6 cylinder oil pan or something? Not sure how you would cut an oil pan and get it to seal.



I race enduros and hare scrambles, currently racing a '17 Husqvarna 250 2-stroke. I also road race a Triumph 675 triple. If there were any real rally series out this way I would be racing cars in the woods too

--------

So from what you guys are saying, a good route would be to use an 850 turbo 5 motor, an M90 manual, and transplant into a 900 series?
Cool, I raced moto-cross from who knows when?? 1969? to the end of the 70s, mostly in Sweden and later France, then when both knees were beat to sh!t came back to Merikuh and went to ollege and put a nice Husky together out of warranty parts...older chassi but in the woods it was perfect for what was needed...Did some enduros and a 6 Day Qualifier in Oregon ..Loved the Qualifier format best...Enduros was too much time keeping and I was burning checks bad..3 or 5 minutes early at one check and you're fawked..Hare Scrambles had too many Mow-rawn wannabe heroes..Amateurs pointlessly aggressive- till they poop out and become annoying slow obstacles...

I did do KTM in 75/76/77 season...Loved them badly Their 250 was the quickest bike in mid 70s, quicker production bike than a few of the ex-works bike a couple of guys I knew had (250 kawasakis--this being in Sweden where the factory riders got all the stuff they didn't use up in the GP season)(which they could sell)

So where's "out this way"?
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:13 AM   #7
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Yes, the should be fairly close to drop in. Something about the 5cyl pan bottoming our on the subframe, so you have to cut a chunk out of the 6cyl oil pan and weld it back together. I want to say retroturbo.com offers the cutting and welding service (idk if you’d need a core or what). Things like water pipes, engine mounts, throttle bodies and intake manifolds to name a few. Talking now, I believe you’d have to use an intake manifold from a 99+ 5cyl. Read this, it isn’t too long, and gives a great run down

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=199342
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:34 AM   #8
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If you are serious, I would buy this immediately. http://turbobricks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352408

These are the mounts for 7/9 series.

http://www.retroturbo.com/?product=v...yl-whiteblocks

These are the mounts for 2 series.

https://www.l-m-r.se/p/volvo/240/mot...volvo-240.html
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:39 AM   #9
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Do you realize what's involved with swapping a 5 cylinder into a rwd car?
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:30 PM   #10
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242/244/245 with a V8. I've been driving mine, [V8 2 door wagon] for 32 years now. 300+ miles on it.
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:45 PM   #11
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If going fast around corners is your bag I'd start with a 240 without question. I won't speak on the 5 cylinder swap difficulty but I'd budget for it to take three times as long and three times as much money as you currently think, regardless of how long and how much you think it will take.
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:10 AM   #12
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Swapping a 5 cylinder seems to present some complications from what I can tell. Is that because they were only made for FWD cars? Now what about swapping a turbo 6 from a 2000 S80 into a 960 that came with a NA 6? Or just mounting all the turbo bits off of the twin turbo motor to the I6? Wat other mods would be needed and will the M90 still work?
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Old 12-04-2019, 03:18 AM   #13
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Swapping a 5 cylinder seems to present some complications from what I can tell. Is that because they were only made for FWD cars? Now what about swapping a turbo 6 from a 2000 S80 into a 960 that came with a NA 6? Or just mounting all the turbo bits off of the twin turbo motor to the I6? Wat other mods would be needed and will the M90 still work?
A lotta work for nothing..
You blew off Redblocks rather casually and I don't recall why... But it IS very puzzling why.
Redblocks are one of the best engines for a fat "money spent to laugh return" engiunes I can think of..Endless potential...

Why do you want to swap in these problematical engines?
You don't seem to have said what end use you intend for the car or I missed it..
(quick review admittedly)
It seems that you want to do something "unique" I think was the word...

Nothings unique.
There no that that's out of the way, can you clarify (its 2 sides of the same coin)
Wassamatta wif redblock and what is supposedly cool about the Whiteblocks?

(a subsidiary question might be "Gee back in the ol' country where Volvos are the most popular car to mod and beat on, why haven't those guys been building or dropping in that many Whiteblocks?? Why are Opel RWD and Beee EM Dubya guys throwing in Redblocks into all kinds of cars?)
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Old 12-04-2019, 05:19 AM   #14
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Wassamatta wif redblock and what is supposedly cool about the Whiteblocks?
I was amused to learn that the whiteblock cam carrier has almost as many bolts as the entire redblock.
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Old 12-04-2019, 01:08 PM   #15
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as for all the other questions, start reading this forum, you need to figure out what you want after learning more.
This. It seems like you really don't know what you want, and kind of asking the forum to tell you what (and even how) to do. (Just my casual observation)


Personally, I'll be dropping a whiteblock into my '78 264 because I want to.
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Old 12-04-2019, 03:29 PM   #16
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you should buy not a volvo. Go get an E30/miata/fox-body/3r or 4th gen camaro...
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:35 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by woodsracer View Post
Swapping a 5 cylinder seems to present some complications from what I can tell. Is that because they were only made for FWD cars? Now what about swapping a turbo 6 from a 2000 S80 into a 960 that came with a NA 6? Or just mounting all the turbo bits off of the twin turbo motor to the I6? Wat other mods would be needed and will the M90 still work?
You're not going to be able to pull this off.
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Old 12-07-2019, 02:40 AM   #18
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Did we scare him off axing questions?
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Old 12-07-2019, 03:00 AM   #19
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Did we scare him off axing questions?
If not, looking at some of the build threads and seeing how many have years worth of updates should. I'm just going to keep my redblock running for as long as possible and hopefully it outlives me.
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:17 PM   #20
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Swapping a 5 cylinder seems to present some complications from what I can tell. Is that because they were only made for FWD cars? Now what about swapping a turbo 6 from a 2000 S80 into a 960 that came with a NA 6? Or just mounting all the turbo bits off of the twin turbo motor to the I6? Wat other mods would be needed and will the M90 still work?
Find the project threads from Homer (redblock exorcism) and another from the Full Banana ( A reasonable project). Both of these gents completed 240 5cyl. Conversions. Reading both threads will answer the majority of your questions. There are other whiteblock threads but these 2 are excellent examples. Where are you in NM? ABQ or ? OK, now I see you are in Espanola.... isn’t that near Sante Fe? I was there last July trout fish a few days..... my son was working for the AF at the base.
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