Brake upgrade for 1987 244 GL (on a budget)

Hi everybody! Been searching around the forum but I haven?t found a proper thread on brake upgrades for a 240.
Even though it's got 4 wheel disk brakes, I feel it's kinda lazy when it comes to stopping (maybe my Honda CRX ED9 is to blame here ), but my question is, how can I upgrade the braking system on a 1987 244GL (B230K engine in it)?

I think braided lines would be a good start, but is there any compatibility from other Volvo's for the rotors and calipers? Maybe other carmakers? (keep in mind I'm from Spain and some cars may not be "foundable" in scrapyards around my home.)

Cheers!

My brakes are 100% stock but have quite the stopping power they should. I did all brand new pads and rotors from my autoparts store. I do not race the car so I have no issues with fading or anything. Some people do rx7 brakes and s60r brakes I believe for an actual upgrade.

You need a new master cylinder.

thanks, I'll look into the MC!

You have a few options. Stainless braided lines are certainly tempting, but before dropping the money, give yours an inspection. Cracks/creases on the outside are signs of cracks or creases on the inside, and the lines need to be replaced.
Installed correctly, and as long as your MC, calipers, solid line, and hydraulic-thingy-that-isn't-the-MC are in good shape, SS lines will eliminate the squish.

I don't know about actual compatibility, but I do know that Girling manufactured brake calipers for a large variety or Euro cars, and so did ATE. Not a lot of work has gone into that, because Girling is such a large company, that for the most part, the calipers are still available online.

This is a helpful resource: http://www.swedishbricks.net/faq/brakes.html

If you really want to go all out, IPD does have the R-brake conversion. You need +17" wheels though.

You have a lot of nice cars in Spain that the nicer models come with good 4 piston calipers...Just yesterday I saw this ad:
http://www.mercadoracing.org/76/640292/pinzas-brembo.html

Publicado el Lun Mar 02, 2015 2:22 pm

se venden pinzas brembo de 4 pistones, validas para saxo-106, psa... con pastillas recien puestas con 100kms y kit de reparacion de juntas, retenes, etc.. nuevo recien puesto.

precio. 330e

Pinzas BREMBO Pinzas BREMBO Pinzas BREMBO


That type of solution is going to mean you have to do some digging and comparison....

And then making some kind of bar adaptor because the mounting distance on Volvo front is 3.25" o pulgas and not many cars ever used 3.25"....most in Europe used in old days 3.5" between the holes...

It can be easy..
Look for calipers with the pistons sized 4 x 38mm minimum, not smaller..Better, and there are calipers on cars there with these--is "progressive pistons"....2 pistons 38mm and 2 pistons 41,3mm---that would be ideal...Or even 4 pistons a bit between 38 and 41,3mm

The other thing is if you look at the Mazda RX7 conversion which I invented 13-14 years ago you see the mounting ears on the caliper are spaced very wide..130mm or more.

That makes everything much easier...look around for photos of the adaptor to connect caliper to the knuckle.....the first one we had from just some scrap I found on the floor of the shop, very easy...and cost maybe $4....

T?o si necesitas algo mejor sin gastarte un ojo de la cara, c?mprate los siguientes repuestos:

http://yoshifab.com/store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=42

http://www.kaplhenke.com/collections/240/products/hawk-hps-brake-pads

http://www.ipdusa.com/products/5138/101641-front-brake-rotor-240-260

Si quieres algo m?s agresivo, John V ac? los sabe todo acerca de adaptar las pinzas delanteras del Mazda RX-7 FB y FC. Requieren placas adaptadoras y discos delanteros del 940 Turbo, adem?s necesitar?as bloquear dos l?neas delanteras, pastillas, y claramente las pinzas en s? mismas.

John V said:

And then making some kind of bar adaptor because the mounting distance on Volvo front is 3.25" o pulgas and not many cars ever used 3.25"....most in Europe used in old days 3.5" between the holes...

Click to expand...

John,

Are you sure about 3.25"? We used to use volvo 240 calipers on Porsche 914's which was a bolt on. 914's and early 911's were 3" c to c on the caliper mounting ears. Later 911's were 3.5".

Just double checking your number with my experiencia...

Stage 0 first. New master cylinder, good rotors and pads matched to what you are doing. Change out the brake lines and flush it good.

Volvo brakes have always been pretty good for me anyway when optimized.

Chewy said:

John,

Are you sure about 3.25"? We used to use volvo 240 calipers on Porsche 914's which was a bolt on. 914's and early 911's were 3" c to c on the caliper mounting ears. Later 911's were 3.5".

Just double checking your number with my experiencia...

Click to expand...

Maybe you're right but what ever it is its dumb..It ain't 3.5" which is very common
Don't have any here not on a car to check

Was the later 911, the 4 pistons ones REALLY 3.5''? That's 88.9mm (the bore of a B20)
My memory they were 90mm like VWs were..
90, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

John V said:

Maybe you're right but what ever it is its dumb..It ain't 3.5" which is very common
Don't have any here not on a car to check

Was the later 911, the 4 pistons ones REALLY 3.5''? That's 88.9mm (the bore of a B20)
My memory they were 90mm like VWs were..
90, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

Click to expand...

911 S and A 2 piston 'gallopers' were 3.5". A's were used up until ~88? I think. Later 911's (964) began using 4 pot's and lord knows what the C to C distance is...

77+ Turbo's had their own 4 pot finned caliper... was 3.5" IIRC.

I think 4 pot 944 turbos (951's) were ~3.75" c to c... or something bizarro

harribert said:

T?o si necesitas algo mejor sin gastarte un ojo de la cara, c?mprate los siguientes repuestos:

http://yoshifab.com/store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=42

http://www.kaplhenke.com/collections/240/products/hawk-hps-brake-pads

http://www.ipdusa.com/products/5138/101641-front-brake-rotor-240-260

Si quieres algo m?s agresivo, John V ac? los sabe todo acerca de adaptar las pinzas delanteras del Mazda RX-7 FB y FC. Requieren placas adaptadoras y discos delanteros del 940 Turbo, adem?s necesitar?as bloquear dos l?neas delanteras, pastillas, y claramente las pinzas en s? mismas.

Click to expand...

Pero querido muchachito no estoy muy seguro de lo f?cil que es encontrar un RX7 est? en Madrid. Los coches franceses o italianos con Brembo es mucho m?s f?cil, si?

Chewy said:

911 S and A 2 piston 'gallopers' were 3.5". A's were used up until ~88? I think. Later 911's (964) began using 4 pot's and lord knows what the C to C distance is...

77+ Turbo's had their own 4 pot finned caliper... was 3.5" IIRC.

I think 4 pot 944 turbos (951's) were ~3.75" c to c... or something bizarro

Click to expand...

You might be spot on..
Old Saab 99 used same basic front and rear calipers as 911 up thru '74my...and interestingly enough that 911 and 99 front pad is same as Volvo rear!
And Saab was 3.5"

I know for sure cause I started putting the cast iron versions of the aluminum Sumitomo RX7 things onto the fronts of 99s and 900 back in 1988 and 3.5" was a big surprise to see on Japanese things....until I found virtually all the old stuff is made under licence from Lockheed

stock volvo brakes work great. how dark is your brake fluid? how old are your tires? what size tires? are the pads shot or cheap replacements? these all can contribute to poor braking.

The Mazda RX7 caliper upgrade "feels" better to most people because the caliper Pistons are 2mm smaller in diameter, therefore the pedal is much more firm. It won't offer you more clamping force, but you might have more pad selection, and you will have better cooling.
Stock Volvo brakes have a lot of clamping power, but the master is small-ish and you end up with a "mushy" or soft pedal (compared to a nice firm racing setup).
There are a few master cylinders that can be swapped into the stock location with a little bit of work. Dave Barton uses a mustang gt master cylinder to firm up the pedal a lot. This looks like it might be the easiest solution for that problem.
The biggest issue I have experienced with stock Volvo brakes is their lack of cooling. On track you can overheat them very quickly

I was just coming to ask that, My master is shot as well, which is why I was able to throw out an errant suggestion right off the back. The 88-93 Fox body GT masters bolt right in? There's a 5mm difference in the bore size. Same fitting (m10x1.0) for the lines?

Interesting. Looks like I'll be having some fun, soon.

Hotdoggin said:

I was just coming to ask that, My master is shot as well, which is why I was able to throw out an errant suggestion right off the back. The 88-93 Fox body GT masters bolt right in? There's a 5mm difference in the bore size. Same fitting (m10x1.0) for the lines?

Interesting. Looks like I'll be having some fun, soon.

Click to expand...

It's not a direct bolt in, but the modifications are not that bad. I would check the fittings before you order one (Rockauto has a lot of the specs on the parts, great resource!)

Here's the link to Dave's page: http://www.davebarton.com/volvo240bigbrakes.html

The section you want is about 5 rows of pictures from the bottom.

I have sucesfully raced the stock 240 brake system with only 2 mods, mild racing pads and brake cooling ducts. For street use just upgrading the pad makes a huge difference in the feel and imediacy of response, the tires lock up long before the calipers or disks become a limiting factor (cheap and simple).

I also have installed the Yoshifab upgrade kit for the RX7 caliper, braided lines and 740 disc, this is an very good package as it saves significant unsprung weight with the aluminum caliper. But it requires playing with pad compounds front to rear to get a good balance or install a brake bais adjuster.

culberro said:

It's not a direct bolt in, but the modifications are not that bad. I would check the fittings before you order one (Rockauto has a lot of the specs on the parts, great resource!)

Here's the link to Dave's page: http://www.davebarton.com/volvo240bigbrakes.html

The section you want is about 5 rows of pictures from the bottom.

Click to expand...

I wonder how things get named on that page?

I say give credit where credit is due but fawk me---the RX7 deal I cook up for Kevin Hawkinson's car in about 3 minutes and we made out of scrap for under $5---its somebody else that gets the credit?

The 240 hat and adaptor kit stuff which I prototyped out and got Kevin to draft which I made a buncha of bells and adaptors, and Kevin was starting the thread because of an out of control moderator playing favorites constantly--figured Kevin was immune---it's Kevins deal?..
Funny I bought the material, machined it , anodized it and had the parts to test fit..

And they sit on my shelf here...

Wonder if Barton cares?

OP if everything about it is healthy... It may need a brake master cylinder or more...

A more aggressive set of brake pads will do wonders.

We had a lot of fun with the Hornetkar years ago.... Not serious track racing with stock almost everything + Porterfield brake pads. Brakes never went away... But the coach work failed!

For real brakes www.sellholm.se is not far from you... Nice people... Quality products that work out of the box. I did their kit of Alcon calipers with rotors on hats in my rallycar.... Works very well.