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Old 11-01-2022, 05:31 PM   #1
Msi
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Default Making huge power on stock manifolds.

Hello fellow TBers.

I'm running a 16v head (with Yoshifab springs, and basically the full 16v conversion kit from Yoshi), held down by a set of ARP studs, on a b230fk bottom (with Yoshifab rods that are now being fitted) and a stock head gasket.

Fueled by 1000IDs and Aeromotive 450lph.

Blown by a ball bearing Borgwarner EFR 6758.

Huge Classicswede intercooler with aftermarket IC pipes (with matched diameter).

3" DP.

Managed by Vems ECU.

Coupled to a gs6-53dz tranny + 4.1 welded rear Volvo axle.

And here comes the turd -

I'm running late stock turbo manifolds for both intake and exhaust, adapted via adapter plates.

Obviously the exhaust manifold had surface and studs job and port opening done to house the Borgwarner and fit it's T25 flange.

The intake manifold still runs the stock throttle body.

I don't want to jump the gun and order aftermarket manifolds and throttle body - unless I absolutely have to.

The Borgwarner is rated at 500hp so I'm aiming at a realistic 400 rwhp.

Yoshifab states on he's website that the stock manifold and adapter plate are good for over 400whp - so I should be good here.

What I'm missing is the intake manifold + throttle body bit/information.

Basically - What can/can't the stock intake+throttle body do? Are they good for 400rwhp?

Thanks!!
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Old 11-01-2022, 06:05 PM   #2
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How come you didn't use a stock b234f manifold? The b230 intake is a bottleneck in a b230 engine, much worse with the 16v head.
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Old 11-01-2022, 06:09 PM   #3
Msi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by white855T View Post
How come you didn't use a stock b234f manifold? The b230 intake is a bottleneck in a b230 engine, much worse with the 16v head.
The 16v engines were not imported into our market. This 16v head was bought off of eBay.
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Old 11-01-2022, 06:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msi View Post
The 16v engines were not imported into our market. This 16v head was bought off of eBay.
You can find them on Ebay for $150-200 plus shipping of course.
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Old 11-01-2022, 06:19 PM   #5
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Here's some of the adapting work that was done for the 8v intake manifold that I'm currently running -

A 16v and 8v intake model overlayed -
https://a.d-cd.net/3533aas-960.jpg

8v manifold cut -
https://a.d-cd.net/e8333aas-960.jpg

Manifold welded to a flange created from the model -
https://a.d-cd.net/6c3d19as-960.jpg

New holes for injectors -
https://a.d-cd.net/fc3d19as-960.jpg

Installed with a heat insulating flange -
https://a.d-cd.net/fa8555as-960.jpg
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Old 11-01-2022, 06:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by white855T View Post
You can find them on Ebay for $150-200 plus shipping of course.
How good are these? I have no experience.
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Old 11-01-2022, 06:48 PM   #7
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Edit.

Confused by what I’m seeing… a lot of effort for a lousy manifold. Was/is the klracing intake out of the question?

Last edited by 740atl; 11-01-2022 at 06:56 PM..
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Old 11-01-2022, 07:07 PM   #8
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Edit.

Confused by what I’m seeing… a lot of effort for a lousy manifold. Was/is the klracing intake out of the question?
This intake manifold was built 9 years ago. By the previous owner.

I'm refreshing the build and taking it to another level.

The KL manifold is absolutely an option.
So is buying a stock 16v.

That's exactly why I'm looking for advice.

If the stock 16v manifold is good for my goals - I'll take that route cause it's cheaper and stealthier and likely won't impact the low end as much as the KL with the 4.7L plenum.

If not, I'll bite the bullet and go for the KL one.

I like the stealth on the car right now. The turbo sits in the stock place absolutely undisclosed without a very close inspection. If 16v manifold is good for my goals - I prefer it. Maybe with an upgraded throttle body.
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Old 11-01-2022, 07:21 PM   #9
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8v turbo exhaust manifold seems fine in my experience. The B230F intake manifold is a turd. Definitely worth making the KL racing intake manifold work over a stock 16v if those are your sole options.

You should get in touch with Artem Lojkin if you haven't already. He lives in Ashdod.


EDIT: Looks like you already know him. What are you waiting for?!!?
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Old 11-01-2022, 07:26 PM   #10
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If this is going in a 240. You'll want to shorten the runners on the 16v intake so it clears a LHD brake booster. If you are RHD then I guess it would fit as is.
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Old 11-01-2022, 07:26 PM   #11
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Is this in a 240 or 740/940? In a 240, the stock 16valve intake manifold hits the brake booster. You’ll need to either swap in a slim brake booster or cut an inch or so out of each exhaust runner and reweld. Or just buy the kl racing one and be done with it.

Obviously clearance issues aren’t a problem on 740/940 cars.
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Old 11-01-2022, 07:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msi View Post
If the stock 16v manifold is good for my goals - I'll take that route cause it's cheaper and stealthier and likely won't impact the low end as much as the KL with the 4.7L plenum.
4.7L will be emptied out by a 2.3 engine in about 4 crankshaft revolutions. At a 1000rpm idle, that is 0.24 seconds.

I can say that an approximately 3L plenum works great on a 16vt, and will always take the biggest plenum I can get for most applications.

The added flow potential in the KL Racing manifold is well worth the other trade offs.
The stock 16v manifold is smaller in area than the ports in the head, and it outflows the b230f manifold by a significant amount.
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Old 11-01-2022, 07:54 PM   #13
Msi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlard View Post
8v turbo exhaust manifold seems fine in my experience. The B230F intake manifold is a turd. Definitely worth making the KL racing intake manifold work over a stock 16v if those are your sole options.

You should get in touch with Artem Lojkin if you haven't already. He lives in Ashdod.

EDIT: Looks like you already know him. What are you waiting for?!!?
Artem is a friend and greatly helps with advice. Just wanted second opinions from TB. Wasn't sure about the 8v manifold.
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Old 11-01-2022, 07:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelous3 View Post
Is this in a 240 or 740/940? In a 240, the stock 16valve intake manifold hits the brake booster. You’ll need to either swap in a slim brake booster or cut an inch or so out of each exhaust runner and reweld. Or just buy the kl racing one and be done with it.

Obviously clearance issues aren’t a problem on 740/940 cars.
It's going into a 96' 940 wagon -
https://a.d-cd.net/d9c8d8s-1920.jpg
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Old 11-01-2022, 08:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
4.7L will be emptied out by a 2.3 engine in about 4 crankshaft revolutions. At a 1000rpm idle, that is 0.24 seconds.

I can say that an approximately 3L plenum works great on a 16vt, and will always take the biggest plenum I can get for most applications.

The added flow potential in the KL Racing manifold is well worth the other trade offs.
The stock 16v manifold is smaller in area than the ports in the head, and it outflows the b230f manifold by a significant amount.
There are 3 throttle body options with it. 70/80/90 mm.
Which would you advise to go with? And why?

Thanks in advance!!
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Old 11-01-2022, 08:04 PM   #16
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No need for anything larger than a 70mm TB.
Reason: you’re not making 800+hp (formula drift cars use 65-70mm TBs, and make 800-1000hp+)
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Old 11-01-2022, 09:07 PM   #17
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Here's a good clip that covers TB size and HP for boosted applications. The rest of the video is worth a watch as well.

https://youtu.be/94G5RALCfAI?t=548
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