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Old 11-16-2008, 10:32 AM   #76
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Thought some might like to read this article from Chevy High Performance, 12 Bolt compared to 9"

surprised Captain Bondo nor anyone else pointed out another weakness of the stock 1030/1031 rear end assemblies....the ring and pinion...so once the center diff and the axles are upgraded to super strong units, the ring and pinion becomes the new "weak link" of the assembly...

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Old 11-16-2008, 12:56 PM   #77
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Fidel,
Thanks for chiming in here. I didn't realize there was a 30 spline differential that would fit a volvo case.

I live literally 2 miles from Mark Williams, and they have built axles for a few of my friends cars. The good axle shops have the tooling to make any axle configuration you want, re-spline stock axles, any bolt pattern, etc. And they charge roughly what Fidel is quoting. $350 a set.

The differential is a whole different animal though.

But really. a 31 spline Ford, or Chevy, can pulled from the local JY for $50-$100. They are out there. I have seen them. The limited slip part might be harder to find. I'll have to go hunt around and see how common they are in the boneyard. I suspect I will find an 8.8 LSD no prob. Even a 9" shouldn't take too much hunting.

I'll be in moving the axle housing brackets around in this project to make room for bigger tires. If im doing that, it just doesn't make sense use the Volvo axle. But the information about the stronger 30 spline diffs and axles, and even upgraded 27 spline axles is really important to alot of people. I think my wagon could use a set of axles like this. Its not getting much faster, but it is still my primary fun car for the next couple years while I start the backhalf on the other car.
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Old 11-16-2008, 05:53 PM   #78
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I re-used the existing suspension pickup points- cut them off the D30 and welded them onto the 8.8.

In retrospect I wouldn't do it that way. Some four-link brackets from summit and some rod and rod ends would have been easier, stronger, and more tuneable.

I know that for a 700 series it isn't quite that easy since you don't have pickup points for upper trailing arms/torque rods like a 240.

But my suggestion is that you consider the possibility of being rid of the "subframe" and set up a more "conventional" 4 link during the process of converting the diff. Maybe it's too hard on a 700, but I would at least have that possibility in the back of my mind when planning the swap.

The rest of the stuff I don't feel like commenting on- turbobricks logic (or lackthereof) just sometimes cannot recieve reason.
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:09 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bondo View Post
I re-used the existing suspension pickup points- cut them off the D30 and welded them onto the 8.8.

In retrospect I wouldn't do it that way. Some four-link brackets from summit and some rod and rod ends would have been easier, stronger, and more tuneable.

I know that for a 700 series it isn't quite that easy since you don't have pickup points for upper trailing arms/torque rods like a 240.

But my suggestion is that you consider the possibility of being rid of the "subframe" and set up a more "conventional" 4 link during the process of converting the diff. Maybe it's too hard on a 700, but I would at least have that possibility in the back of my mind when planning the swap.

The rest of the stuff I don't feel like commenting on- turbobricks logic (or lackthereof) just sometimes cannot recieve reason.
any other things you'd have done differently such as donor vehicle choice or use of aftemarket parts??
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:30 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 740ATL View Post
Kevin Hawkinson and JV are using the Toyota rear. I'd love to see more pics of their progress. (hint hint).
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Originally Posted by fryea View Post
+1
The toyota supra with 5 bolt wheels comes standard with an awesome diff that is:
1.) light
2.) strong
3.) already has a LSD
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Originally Posted by Poik View Post
I thought Supras were IRS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
they are.
For the Toyota 8" rear end:
Yes, the Supras are IRS, and some (turbos?) come with 4-pinion LSD.
Pickups and 4Runners have a solid rear axle with dropout 3rd member.
Drop the LSD into the solid axle 3rd member with your choice of R&P.

For Toyota 9.5" rear end (just found out about this last week):
These came in FJ Land Cruisers.
Optional equipment: electric locking diffs and/or full-floating axles.


Project status report:
Need diff and pinion bearings.
Gotta get the 3rd member assembled.
Waiting on link boxes (these get welded into the chassis).
Gotta figure out caliper mounts.

Project is currently low priority.
School, work, and getting my DD running all have higher priority.
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Old 11-16-2008, 08:18 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mueller View Post
any other things you'd have done differently such as donor vehicle choice or use of aftemarket parts??
Not at this point. 96+ ford explorer is the donor of choice IMO.
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:35 AM   #82
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Yeah, I have already ditched the idea of using the original pickup points on the body. Its going to be a very generic tuneable 4 link setup, with a new rear subframe, tied into the rollcage and chassis. I was hoping for a 122 to come along. Still looking actually. But Ive been sizing some things up lately, and my 242 has some definite advantages and may become the drag car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bondo View Post
I re-used the existing suspension pickup points- cut them off the D30 and welded them onto the 8.8.

In retrospect I wouldn't do it that way. Some four-link brackets from summit and some rod and rod ends would have been easier, stronger, and more tuneable.

I know that for a 700 series it isn't quite that easy since you don't have pickup points for upper trailing arms/torque rods like a 240.

But my suggestion is that you consider the possibility of being rid of the "subframe" and set up a more "conventional" 4 link during the process of converting the diff. Maybe it's too hard on a 700, but I would at least have that possibility in the back of my mind when planning the swap.

The rest of the stuff I don't feel like commenting on- turbobricks logic (or lackthereof) just sometimes cannot recieve reason.
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:11 PM   #83
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Of the 5 Explorer 8.8 rear ends I looked at in the junk yard, all were 3.73 ratios w/limited slip diffs. for $150.

Here is a link for modifing the Mustang 8.8, but I noticed that the Explorer 8.8's had the houseing tubes tapered down at the outer bearing. I don't know how the Moser 9" housing ends fit.

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...end/index.html

And here is an article from Popular Hot Rodding's Sept. 1999 issue discribing the differences between the Mopar 8.75" rear and a Currie 9". I have included the entire artical even though it has little to do with the 8.8", but it should be similar . At the bottom of the first column on page 32, they talk about the differences between how much more power the 9" requires and is only an amount greater then what is needed to turn the 8.75" and not a percentage of total power.









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Old 11-17-2008, 02:15 PM   #84
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Something to consider no matter which rear axle you choose. If you have to narrow the rear axle, you can cut off the ends of a Volvo axle and weld them to the ends of your new axle. Then by just redrilling your axles, you can use stock Volvo rear disc brakes and calipers.
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:26 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElPiloto View Post
Something to consider no matter which rear axle you choose. If you have to narrow the rear axle, you can cut off the ends of a Volvo axle and weld them to the ends of your new axle. Then by just redrilling your axles, you can use stock Volvo rear disc brakes and calipers.


The key thing to remember here is he wants to use 31 spline 9" axles, and for good reason. So using 9" housing ends with the appropriate bolt pattern for mounting the 8.8 disc is the best way to go IMO. (I actually sent this info via PM. Probably should have just posted it...

The 8.8 disc brakes swap very easily. The e-brakes work the same way- just splice the cables. Currie sells a brake hose kit that allows the calipers to hook up to the volvo hardlines very easily as well (just cut the volvo fittings off and install standard 3/16" brake fitting w/ single flares.)
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Old 11-17-2008, 05:08 PM   #86
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So, If you used these 8.8 housing ends from Moser to use 9" small bearing axle shafts, do you first have to cut the original housing ends off, weld on the new ends, then shorten the Explorer housing tubes before the taper at the correct length, and then weld the tubes back together? I guess what I'm wondering is what is the Explorer tube diameter at the center differential and the housing ends?

http://www.moserengineering.com/Page...usingends.html


MOSER HOUSING ENDS
New forged, CNC machined housing ends are available separately or on any housing we sell. These housing ends accept stock bearings and seals, and are available for most popular applications. The 8.8” Ford ends accept the small 9” Ford style bearing, but still work with most 8.8” Ford brake set ups. The Chevrolet ends accept the large Ford style bearing, but still utilizes most Chevy drum and disc brake set-ups.



PART # DESCRIPTION PRICE
New Housing Ends (pair)
7400 8 3/4" Mopar & Dana 60 80 pair
7450 Symmetrical/Lamb 80 pair
7455 Symmetrical Ends for Double Row Ball Bearings 125 pair
7705 2005-Newer Mustang (Ford large bearing & non c-clip axles) 80 pair
7700 1979-2004 8.8" Mustang (uses 9" Ford small bearing & non c-clip axles) 80 pair
7750 Big Ford New Style/Torino 80 pair
7755 Small Bearing Ford 80 pair
7800 Big Ford--1/2" holes 80 pair
7838 Big Ford--3/8" holes 80 pair
7850 Olds/Pontiac - 1949-1964 80 pair
7900 Small Chevy Car (Ford large bearing & non c-clip axles) 80 pair
7905 C-Clip Chevy Car (stock type bearing & seal and c-clip axles) 85 pair
7950 Chevy Impala & Truck (Ford large bearing & non c-clip axles) 80 pair
7750DB Deep Bore Torino (bored for 45 mm bearing) 80 pair
7800DB Deep Bore Big Ford (bored for 45 mm bearing) 80 pair
7900DB Deep Bore Chevy Car (bored for 45 mm bearing) 80 pair







COPYRIGHT 2005 MOSERENGINEERING, INC

Last edited by Volvo Heretic; 11-17-2008 at 05:15 PM..
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Old 11-17-2008, 05:33 PM   #87
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The trick here is that the 8.8 from the explorer has 3.25" axle tubes, which are larger than "car" axle tubes.

The explorer 8.8 will actually accept large bearing 9" ends.

You cut the ends off so that the axle tubes are the length you want, then weld the new housing ends on. It's just one step to do the narrowing. No point in cutting, welding, then cutting and welding again. But you do need to shorten the axle by at least enough to remove the tapered end.

I used Currie for all of my diff stuff and they are great. I would call them and tell them what you want to do (include the important info that the 8.8 you have is from an epxlorer). They will sell you the right housing ends and axles and etc all at the same time so that everything works.





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Originally Posted by Volvo Heretic View Post
So, If you used these 8.8 housing ends from Moser to use 9" small bearing axle shafts, do you first have to cut the original housing ends off, weld on the new ends, then shorten the Explorer housing tubes before the taper at the correct length, and then weld the tubes back together? I guess what I'm wondering is what is the Explorer tube diameter at the center differential and the housing ends?

http://www.moserengineering.com/Page...usingends.html


MOSER HOUSING ENDS
New forged, CNC machined housing ends are available separately or on any housing we sell. These housing ends accept stock bearings and seals, and are available for most popular applications. The 8.8” Ford ends accept the small 9” Ford style bearing, but still work with most 8.8” Ford brake set ups. The Chevrolet ends accept the large Ford style bearing, but still utilizes most Chevy drum and disc brake set-ups.



PART # DESCRIPTION PRICE
New Housing Ends (pair)
7400 8 3/4" Mopar & Dana 60 80 pair
7450 Symmetrical/Lamb 80 pair
7455 Symmetrical Ends for Double Row Ball Bearings 125 pair
7705 2005-Newer Mustang (Ford large bearing & non c-clip axles) 80 pair
7700 1979-2004 8.8" Mustang (uses 9" Ford small bearing & non c-clip axles) 80 pair
7750 Big Ford New Style/Torino 80 pair
7755 Small Bearing Ford 80 pair
7800 Big Ford--1/2" holes 80 pair
7838 Big Ford--3/8" holes 80 pair
7850 Olds/Pontiac - 1949-1964 80 pair
7900 Small Chevy Car (Ford large bearing & non c-clip axles) 80 pair
7905 C-Clip Chevy Car (stock type bearing & seal and c-clip axles) 85 pair
7950 Chevy Impala & Truck (Ford large bearing & non c-clip axles) 80 pair
7750DB Deep Bore Torino (bored for 45 mm bearing) 80 pair
7800DB Deep Bore Big Ford (bored for 45 mm bearing) 80 pair
7900DB Deep Bore Chevy Car (bored for 45 mm bearing) 80 pair







COPYRIGHT 2005 MOSERENGINEERING, INC
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:28 PM   #88
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Thanks Captain Bondo, that clarified a lot. Now back to the calculator...
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Old 11-17-2008, 11:12 PM   #89
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We are on the lookout now for a 70 - 81 Camaro/Firebird 8.5 ten bolt.

8.5 inch, tons of parts available cheap, width is in the ballpark.

We are going to use a GM Eaton type posi, probably 4:10s

Swap all the mounts off another Volvo housing, use either 79 Trans Am rotors and calipers, but more likely will use 1LE and Iroc backing plates as they will bolt on to the earlier Camaro housing. We are going to order new, Strange or Alloy, or another brand axle have them set up for the Volvo bolt pattern.

Using the 82-92 Camaro calipers will have us in the right zone in regards to metric fittings, not sure what the Volvo thread is, but will be easier adapting metric to metric than metric to American, which is what I had to do in my 67 Camaro, thus had to make up a custom adapter fitting from a local shop.

We will likely retain the c-clips as the car will be street drive and see limited track use.

I know quite a few people going 10s with 8.5 inch axles, so going in the 12s or whatever Citysurf's wagon will run, the 8.5 will do fine. We figure for under 1000 dollars we will have a stout rear axle in the car....
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:44 PM   #90
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Captain Bondo speaks the truth. I like 302CAMARO650HPs thinking too. That is the way I would go, but this thread is not about me or what I want. The thread is about what qwkswede wants. There is certainly a lot of good information here by people who know what they are talking about. Now qwkswede has to decide which way to go.

Keep us informed.
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Old 11-18-2008, 07:36 PM   #91
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Great thread guys. I appreciate the help.
I'll be hunting the junkyards some in the coming months. I still like the ease of service you get with a 9". If I see one with a limited slip, I will likely grab it. But really, the 8.8s are way more plentiful these days. I'll have to see whats out there.
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Old 11-25-2008, 06:04 PM   #92
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There's a 97 exploder at the local yard I can get the limited slip 3.73 disc brake rear for $115. I'm thinking about it.
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:06 AM   #93
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I was out at the yard today. I saw about 10 explorers, and countless other Fords with 8.8 rears. None of them were disk brake type unfortunately. None of the Explorers were new enough for disk brakes.. Rear axles are on sale this weekend. $39. I should have grabbed something. But it was snowy and muddy, so I wasn't super motivated to work on the ground.

there was one 1994 Eddie Bauer Explorer that I could not rotate the wheels opposite of each other by hand. Though, the cover did not have the "L" tag. Maybe it had a dealer or aftermarket added LSD? It had drum brakes but otherwise was the best looking candidate. I may go back for it tomorrow.

I saw a couple of trucks with 9" housings. But they all had the diffs removed. The 9" looked like it might be a challenge. The abundance of 8.8 parts has swayed my choice. I'll run the 8.8 I think.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:59 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwkswede View Post
I was out at the yard today. I saw about 10 explorers, and countless other Fords with 8.8 rears. None of them were disk brake type unfortunately. None of the Explorers were new enough for disk brakes.. Rear axles are on sale this weekend. $39. I should have grabbed something. But it was snowy and muddy, so I wasn't super motivated to work on the ground.

there was one 1994 Eddie Bauer Explorer that I could not rotate the wheels opposite of each other by hand. Though, the cover did not have the "L" tag. Maybe it had a dealer or aftermarket added LSD? It had drum brakes but otherwise was the best looking candidate. I may go back for it tomorrow.

I saw a couple of trucks with 9" housings. But they all had the diffs removed. The 9" looked like it might be a challenge. The abundance of 8.8 parts has swayed my choice. I'll run the 8.8 I think.
Didya at least look at the Toyota PU 8" rears.
Then its simply turning the OD and drilling the flanges.

And you get nice 4 pinion LSDs.

What is it that you booys seem to not understand the strength of 4 pinion diffs vs those 2 pinion things found in most Amerikanskij axles?
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:32 PM   #95
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John/Kevin.... Have you fellers looked at the diff assembly in the V-8 Landcruiser?

Many of them come from the factory with an electric operated maybe vacuum locker.
They all have big vented discs.
I've never seen one fail so with a bit of luck it will not be silly expen$ive in the yards.

The 9" Ford thing in my car..... one could figure $3-4000 yankee dollars to fit one. My rear axle uses an old mustang housing shortened with Volvo suspension pick-ups on it. It has an Aluminum center section (saves unsprung weight), 35 spline axles that I should have had gun-drilled for weight savings, disc brakes (Volvo 740 turbo front rotor and Porsche/Brembo C-4 calipers) and is now dandy. The 9" rear is one that you can pick and choose any variable you like right down to having a sheet metal housing made up for your car. All it takes is money.

Any of you who are $erious about doing a real custom thing...
I will be happy to put you into touch with a fellow who builds them. He is not interested in time wasters though.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:56 PM   #96
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Didya at least look at the Toyota PU 8" rears.
Then its simply turning the OD and drilling the flanges.

And you get nice 4 pinion LSDs.

What is it that you booys seem to not understand the strength of 4 pinion diffs vs those 2 pinion things found in most Amerikanskij axles?
John, do you have an idea of which year trucks I should be looking at? There's a pnp near my hometown that has lots of Toyota trucks in the 85-92 range. Just basically look for something with rear discs and go for it?

Mike

edit... damn 2 seconds of googling and I found this.... http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/#v6/turbo
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:22 PM   #97
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[QUOTE=JohnLane;2161585]
Quote:
John/Kevin.... Have you fellers looked at the diff assembly in the V-8 Landcruiser?
Don't see the Landcruisers in the low rent yards Kevvie and I hang around in.

Quote:
Many of them come from the factory with an electric operated maybe vacuum locker.
They all have big vented discs.
I've never seen one fail so with a bit of luck it will not be silly expen$ive in the yards.
Not so worried about their breakes since what we've done on the 2 so far is just chuck the axle up and turn the OD and the backside of the flange and leave a step for Volvo disc to center on and drill 5 easy holes.
EASY!!!!

Quote:
The 9" Ford thing in my car..... one could figure $3-4000 yankee dollars to fit one. My rear axle uses an old mustang housing shortened with Volvo suspension pick-ups on it. It has an Aluminum center section (saves unsprung weight), 35 spline axles that I should have had gun-drilled for weight savings, disc brakes (Volvo 740 turbo front rotor and Porsche/Brembo C-4 calipers) and is now dandy. The 9" rear is one that you can pick and choose any variable you like right down to having a sheet metal housing made up for your car. All it takes is money.
Lesse, I stink Kevvie paid like 110 bucks for his, I got him a 4.3 ring and pinion for $10, and he traded a something to get a Stuprah 4 pinion LSD for cheap.
He has under 250 in it and he did the plug-weld (with BOTH shielded and gas MIG at the same time) while I was doing the turning on the lathe.
He did the bolt circles--and got it right after I slapped him around and made him check the first one and re-check the mill heads levelling.
I may occasionally forget things but I USUALLY know to check for errors.

So all told it is EASY.

Oh and we drilled for the use of the Sooper Bitchin M14 x 2.2" stud I like so much.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:06 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by JohnLane View Post
The 9" Ford thing in my car..... one could figure $3-4000 yankee dollars to fit one.

Any of you who are $erious about doing a real custom thing...
I will be happy to put you into touch with a fellow who builds them. He is not interested in time wasters though.

Ah well. That buggers it up for 95% of the people on here then!
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:53 PM   #99
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By the time you deal with all of the trouble to shorten up an 8.8" I'd go get a new fabricated full floater 9" rear and be done with it the right way.

You can get a rear with new axles, hubs, bearings, brake brackets (set up to run standard late model brakes, which are cheap and easy and there are plenty of different options open so it'd be one less thing to deal with) for somewhere around a grand, which probably isn't a far cry from what you'd spend by the time you shortened an 8.8 then upgraded the internals, the only catch is here you'd have to buy a diff, carrier and gear, and have it assembled.
http://stockcarproducts.com/rearend.htm
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:02 PM   #100
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I disagree. Using prices I was quoted from over there.
Explorer Axle (junkyard) $100?
Narrowing (self) $0
Axle shafts (Moser) $315
Ford Racing clutch pack $115
Diff Girdle $175
ARP stud kit $20
And that already has 31 spline diff, LSD and rear discs. With Moser shafts that axle will take more than anyone on here can throw at it.
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