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Old 10-30-2022, 12:47 AM   #1
sc0terdad
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Default 93+ block, is it really worth it?

so I am starting my very first build here, I have read and seen that by all means it is a better "cooler" option to have a 93+ block for a turbo build as it keeps the engine from knocking, but I have also seen that there are plenty of people out there running non squirter motors in their cars and are making similar power figures to what I intend to make (250-300whp(ish))

the intent for the car is that it will be regularly driven two or three times a week and needs to be relatively reliable.
if anyone has applicable experience I would love to hear it.

thanks
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Old 10-30-2022, 01:18 AM   #2
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additionally if the answer is yes; I cant seem to source a decent 93+ block, how difficult is the squirtsential rental kit for someone who has EXTREMELY little machining experience?

Last edited by sc0terdad; 10-31-2022 at 01:10 AM.. Reason: can+t
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Old 10-30-2022, 01:21 AM   #3
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A 93+ block with squirters doesn't prevent knock, which most would interpret as rod knock or spark knock, it prevents piston slap, which is an issue with B230 motors. Not really a big issue. I always saw it as an annoyance.

If you can get a squirter block for a new build then go for it, but it is a nice to have in my opinion, not essential. For your use case I wouldn't sweat it.
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Old 10-30-2022, 08:27 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by sc0terdad View Post
additionally if the answer is yes; I can seem to source a decent 93+ block, how difficult is the squirtsential rental kit for someone who has EXTREMELY little machining experience?
My first question would be how much experience do you have tearing down & building engines? If you are NOT familiar & comfortable with that process, it makes zero sense to embark on the DIY machining to add the squirters.
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Old 10-30-2022, 01:43 PM   #5
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My first question would be how much experience do you have tearing down & building engines? If you are NOT familiar & comfortable with that process, it makes zero sense to embark on the DIY machining to add the squirters.
yeah so in terms of engine tear down my experience is next to none so that answers the question I guess.
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Old 10-30-2022, 02:01 PM   #6
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not worth it, just find a 90+ NA motor and put turbo parts on it. The NA motors tend to be less clapped out at this age.
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Old 10-30-2022, 02:23 PM   #7
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Find whatever 90 or newer engine has the lowest miles. Oil squirters are nice but not a make or break. They’re certainly not going to save you from a bad tune and/or too much boost.
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Old 10-30-2022, 03:42 PM   #8
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Find whatever 90 or newer engine has the lowest miles. Oil squirters are nice but not a make or break. They’re certainly not going to save you from a bad tune and/or too much boost.
in terms of miles, two engine I am looking at are both 92 one has 70,000 miles on it for 1k
the other has 140,000 miles for 600

will a gap like this make much difference in performance or would it be wiser to save some money on the higher mile engine?
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Old 10-30-2022, 03:57 PM   #9
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IMO, it is worth it. I wouldn't put anything else in a Volvo I intended to keep. I've had 93+ B230s with 300,000 miles on them that were as quiet as the day they left the factory. I've also had countless non-squirter B230s with less than 150,000 miles on them that sounded like they were coming apart. One thing I have noticed for sure, the squirter motors always run better/stronger when they are higher mileage than the non-squirter engines. I have a couple of theories about that. One, they maintain tighter piston to cylinder tolerances longer. Two, the "noise" from piston slap is interpreted as knock by the EZK. I have never data logged to determine if that theory is correct. The EZK pulls timing when it detects pinging/knock. Having a rattling lower end is not a good thing when running the LH system.
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Old 10-30-2022, 05:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sc0terdad View Post
in terms of miles, two engine I am looking at are both 92 one has 70,000 miles on it for 1k
the other has 140,000 miles for 600

will a gap like this make much difference in performance or would it be wiser to save some money on the higher mile engine?
70k is basically brand new.
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Old 10-30-2022, 06:26 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 2manyturbos View Post
IMO, it is worth it. I wouldn't put anything else in a Volvo I intended to keep. I've had 93+ B230s with 300,000 miles on them that were as quiet as the day they left the factory. I've also had countless non-squirter B230s with less than 150,000 miles on them that sounded like they were coming apart. One thing I have noticed for sure, the squirter motors always run better/stronger when they are higher mileage than the non-squirter engines. I have a couple of theories about that. One, they maintain tighter piston to cylinder tolerances longer. Two, the "noise" from piston slap is interpreted as knock by the EZK. I have never data logged to determine if that theory is correct. The EZK pulls timing when it detects pinging/knock. Having a rattling lower end is not a good thing when running the LH system.
This^^
My 442k mile 93 B230 is nice and quiet. I did do the hushers when I put the cam in at about 375k miles. Synthetic oil since I got it a 230k miles.

The squirter mod is very straight forward for a competent machine shop. I bought the BMW
squirters to put in my B21FT.
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Old 11-01-2022, 04:30 AM   #12
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If you're aiming for 300hp then you want the 90+ block for the stronger rods and not necessarily the oil squirters. Then you can leave it stock and not have to open it up.
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Old 11-01-2022, 03:44 PM   #13
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people are charging a GRAND for redblocks now? Damn I better go get that 30k mile 760 out of the field up the road toot suite.
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Old 11-01-2022, 03:54 PM   #14
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Damn I better go get that 30k mile 760 out of the field up the road toot suite.
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Old 11-01-2022, 04:35 PM   #15
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Here is a 89' B230 that they want for 2K. Nothing upgraded just stage "0".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15515526010...09a4%7Ciid%3A1
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Old 11-01-2022, 07:30 PM   #16
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No one wanted any of my engines so I'm keeping them all. It was a few B21FT and one B23FT. No longer for sale. Most are mid to high mileage anyway so certainly not the cream of the cheese.
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Old 11-02-2022, 07:36 AM   #17
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No one wanted any of my engines so I'm keeping them all. It was a few B21FT and one B23FT. No longer for sale. Most are mid to high mileage anyway so certainly not the cream of the cheese.
I thought the group A engines were 60,000 mile blocks, because work hardening
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Old 11-02-2022, 01:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I thought the group A engines were 60,000 mile blocks, because work hardening
IIRC BMW did that with their race engines in the 80s.
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Old 11-02-2022, 02:16 PM   #19
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I thought the group A engines were 60,000 mile blocks, because work hardening
Real Group A engines probably have some process done to them. They spared no expense
to take advantage of the rules. But the ones we got in the flathood homologation cars are
regular engines. My friends went to about 300k before he sold it and it moved around
to several Tbrickers before disappearing.
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Old 11-04-2022, 12:37 AM   #20
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This^^
My 442k mile 93 B230 is nice and quiet. I did do the hushers when I put the cam in at about 375k miles. Synthetic oil since I got it a 230k miles.

The squirter mod is very straight forward for a competent machine shop. I bought the BMW
squirters to put in my B21FT.
where did you get the bmw squirters and which ons did you use, additionally how much did you have to pay the machine shop to have them installed?
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Old 11-04-2022, 08:24 AM   #21
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where did you get the bmw squirters and which ons did you use, additionally how much did you have to pay the machine shop to have them installed?
Did you search at all? Several threads come up - including this one, which has the part numbers 11 11 1 739 907

Machine work costs always vary by location, I'd stop by whatever machine shop you have available to you & show them pics from one of the threads, if you can't clearly describe to them what you need
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Old 11-04-2022, 12:43 PM   #22
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Did you search at all? Several threads come up - including this one, which has the part numbers 11 11 1 739 907

Machine work costs always vary by location, I'd stop by whatever machine shop you have available to you & show them pics from one of the threads, if you can't clearly describe to them what you need
I do not know how to use the search function
I appreciate the link and part number, and I think I will see about talking to a machine shop today.

thanks
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Old 11-04-2022, 01:11 PM   #23
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I do not know how to use the search function
I appreciate the link and part number, and I think I will see about talking to a machine shop today.

thanks
The internal search doesn't usually work very well - I just preface a google search with " TurboBricks - "

e.g. "Turbobricks - bmw squirter mod". I'm sure there are more refined ways of doing searches, but that usually works for me.
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Old 11-04-2022, 01:14 PM   #24
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I personally think this is occupying too much real estate in your mind. What are you goals for the block? Do you have a number in mind for power? Will everything else in the driveline be able to match the power number once the block is in the car?

I've always tried to locate the best block I could for my time and money and then just went with it. Got it home, threw it in the car with or without fresh gaskets and/or a fresh coat of paint and hit the drag strip. If it blew up it was because i was doing something stupid... with or without piston oil squirters installed they didn't save me. I was pushing too much boost or too much timing or too little fuel through the engine and it either cracked a ringland, melted a piston, or bent a rod so bad it pushed it through the side of the block. Of the five blocks I blew up in a row, three had squirters, one was a b21ft and one was an old skinny rod number. The block in the car now is a squirter block that has so much blowby the exhaust system will never rust.

Best bet would be to find a block still installed in the car you could do a compression and leakdown on. 2nd best from a reliable seller, 3rd best you're bring a battery with you to the JY to do the aforementioned tests... but regardless I always yanked the heads off the blocks I was about to purchase just to be sure.

If you have big power plans it doesn't matter what block you get. Rebore-rehone-rering-squirter-rinse-lather-repeat... the squirter install can be done then.... if you still want them.
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Old 11-04-2022, 05:15 PM   #25
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I personally think this is occupying too much real estate in your mind. What are you goals for the block? Do you have a number in mind for power? Will everything else in the driveline be able to match the power number once the block is in the car?

I've always tried to locate the best block I could for my time and money and then just went with it. Got it home, threw it in the car with or without fresh gaskets and/or a fresh coat of paint and hit the drag strip. If it blew up it was because i was doing something stupid... with or without piston oil squirters installed they didn't save me. I was pushing too much boost or too much timing or too little fuel through the engine and it either cracked a ringland, melted a piston, or bent a rod so bad it pushed it through the side of the block. Of the five blocks I blew up in a row, three had squirters, one was a b21ft and one was an old skinny rod number. The block in the car now is a squirter block that has so much blowby the exhaust system will never rust.

Best bet would be to find a block still installed in the car you could do a compression and leakdown on. 2nd best from a reliable seller, 3rd best you're bring a battery with you to the JY to do the aforementioned tests... but regardless I always yanked the heads off the blocks I was about to purchase just to be sure.

If you have big power plans it doesn't matter what block you get. Rebore-rehone-rering-squirter-rinse-lather-repeat... the squirter install can be done then.... if you still want them.
yeah so my goals are pretty modest, 250-300whp, I have a 4cl t5 and swap parts otw, I still need to figure out and price the ecu and components for it,
as for block, I am currently looking at a 92 b230f with 100k kms, compression tested at 175-185 across the 4 not leaking oil or coolant.

the idea is a +t, 90+ manifold, front mount intercooler or similar, unsure about injectors.

Last edited by sc0terdad; 11-04-2022 at 06:05 PM..
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