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Old 02-20-2014, 01:18 AM   #1
huskybruiserjr
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Default upright or slanted?

what are the benefits of staying slanted vs mounting the engine upright?

anything wrong with mounting it upright?
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:35 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by huskybruiserjr View Post
what are the benefits of staying slanted vs mounting the engine upright?

anything wrong with mounting it upright?
Most people don't have the resources to mount it upright (tools to do it or pay for the needed and different parts)


It'll be tradeoff, you gain exhaust clearance, you lose intake clearance.
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:57 AM   #3
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Turbo clearance for a 16V head.
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how psi stock cna support?


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Old 02-20-2014, 12:39 PM   #4
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Looks cool.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:54 PM   #5
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Upright; advantage: access to exhaust side, more room for the obligatory way oversized turbo since people want lots of lag to complain about. Intake side still has plenty of room for a decent free flowing manifold....

Disadvanatge: more fab of motor mountings, have to find a B20 sump, infinitesimally higher CG

Tilted: Advantages: infinitesimally lower CG, less height, easier hack job on mounts.
Dis advantages. extremely limited room for exhaust manifold and obligatory oversized turbo..

Motor mounts on the Volvos are poor, ancient design anyway so in a performance car they should be completely redesigned anyway so that may cancel out either way.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:45 PM   #6
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Fits in your 142 or P1800 better.
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:11 PM   #7
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Up-right advantage: possible dry sump.
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator View Post
Motor mounts on the Volvos are poor, ancient design anyway so in a performance car they should be completely redesigned anyway so that may cancel out either way.
go on.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:08 PM   #9
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Because its sexxy sauce. In my 9 series I was able to keep crank centerline in the same location so COG is negotiable.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:15 PM   #10
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Up-right advantage: possible dry sump.
Doesn't need to be upright.


I don't see a reason to go through all the effort to stand it up, there's enough support out there with intakes, headers and other accessories to make it work.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:38 PM   #11
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turbo your rhd car......why has no one said this yet.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:53 PM   #12
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yes john v continue about these mounts!
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:15 AM   #13
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The stock mounts are ****, plain and simple. They're mounted so close to the engine that even small reaction torques create large forces on them. Because of the angle they're at, the force stresses the mount in shear, which is even worse in terms of life span. They're also made from soft rubber that has a lot of compliance and tears easily.

Here's how I re-did the mounts on my car:





Those are torque rods from the rear axle that have been cut apart and re-purposed. They have soft factory bushings and the engine barely moves when you open the throttle.

I know John has some photos of similar mounts he has fabricated that I hope he'll share as well.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
The stock mounts are ****, plain and simple. They're mounted so close to the engine that even small reaction torques create large forces on them. Because of the angle they're at, the force stresses the mount in shear, which is even worse in terms of life span. They're also made from soft rubber that has a lot of compliance and tears easily.

Here's how I re-did the mounts on my car:





Those are torque rods from the rear axle that have been cut apart and re-purposed. They have soft factory bushings and the engine barely moves when you open the throttle.

I know John has some photos of similar mounts he has fabricated that I hope he'll share as well.
Good photos.
Folks notice the wrap around the chassi rail so shear and compression is in play..


And to repeat for the peeps who have never see this: THIS chasssi rail mount, reatining a bush, IS the direction serious builds went at the end of RWD in top level--in serious markets---competition...
No surprise its unknown here.


You mount the motor to the strongest thing in the front of the car: the chassi rails..

With a tiny bit of creativity you could even make the chassi rail end a bolt on assembly if you were worried about returning you car to its "all matching number "condition when you're doing pounding a car..

Ancient photos from years ago:

The direct inspiration Ford Cosworth 4x4 Group A mounts off my car:


Spread the load---this is Kevin hawkinsons car and mostly his ideas---I was busy stitch welding the front end---which for some reason I really can't begin to understand---nearly nobody does that here *




Done: aaaah virginal white!


Now Ford was not alone in going this way for its powerful turbo car, go look at this beautiful restoration and notice the mounts:
http://www.mat.fi/n_index.php?nav=ga...turbotc35&g=13


*( I mean derp derp! 25+ year old car, you double the hp, double and then some the torque, put fat 17-19" tires on it and pound it------and you guys don't ROUTINELY---ANY TIME the motor is out---take a few minutes to stitch weld the car???
WOT DA FAWK?????----Makes me wonder if I don't understand something since I started stich welding on the first so called "performace car" I built...because older experienced guys EVERYWHERE said "stich weld the car if you want it to last" Seriously WOT DA FAWK?)
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:18 PM   #15
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.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:52 PM   #16
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This thread is turbobricks gold. Thanks Karl and John
In any hi performance car getting the motor and the gearbox to sit still BUT NOT SHAKE YOUR BRAINS OUT and not vibrate the car to pieces is a big deal.. Add weight considerations into the equation as racers always obsess about and its a bigger deal.

I always thought it was weird in all the rwd cars that the engine and box jumped and wagged around so much compared with my old Saab V4---but then again I had added two additional mounts (Volvo trans mounts oddly enough) as part of the so called "Mexico mount" kit from Saab which you can see in this piccie (along with the Volvo turbo thermostatic oil cooler sandwich plate--and elsewhere Volvo 240 expamsion tank)..

So when I got an Xratty it was nice to have a motor that sat still a lot better than anything I had driven rwd.. They stick straight out and are wide spaced like this:



I think later 940s did something very similar---and its the same block so maybe with a little creativity something could be done using those arms into previous cars.. Volvo does usually--er eventually do things smart---even if it is 20 years after everybody else...

I like the chassi rail mounting because it separates the engine mounting from the crossmember and steering and suspension pick ups----and makes eventual servicing of all those things quicker and tons easier---and those things are the things likey to get bang up when the inevitable happens and we stuff the nose of the car into a ditch or a bank---as we are all destined to do...It is written!

The link abouve to the Finnish car porn site* shows a 380hp Group B Toyota Celica with essentially the same idea as the Ford stuff . see piccie 5, 6, 23, 55, 56, 179, 195, 308, 425, 426,
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:10 PM   #17
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This thread is turbobricks gold. Thanks Karl and John
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:23 PM   #18
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Karl, fabrication n00b here:

I see what you've done, but how is the chassis rail mount anchor fasted to the chassis rail? Is that a mock-up photo (to be welded?), or is it bolted through top to bottom?
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:40 PM   #19
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It's attached using the cross member bolts.

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Old 02-22-2014, 03:15 PM   #20
John V, outside agitator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
It's attached using the cross member bolts.


Whaddya knoez...didn't somebody above say

Quote:
With a tiny bit of creativity you could even make the chassi rail end a bolt on assembly if you were worried about returning you car to its "all matching number "condition when you're doing pounding a car..
Yeah I think they did..
A lot of what we do is really just connecting the dots... Motor here, chassi rail there zip zap ZOOOOOOT!
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:21 PM   #21
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<3
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Old 10-18-2015, 06:34 AM   #22
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Old 10-18-2015, 07:44 AM   #23
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Interesting. I never really played around with performance mods on a full unibody car, all have been either full frame or subframed. I can see the relevance of stitching the chassis panels now, just not something I would have thought of as necessary. Thanks.
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