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Coach me. N/A build. 200 bhp? Engine rebuild required. +T go home.

Chrisco

Chrisco

WRC addict
Joined
Mar 24, 2003
Location
Victoria BC
So after about 10 years of my abuse, my 350,000 km engine bottom end is knocking. To keep costs down I generally work with a "if it ain't broke yet, don't upgrade it" policy...But now that it's broke...A reliable 200-210bhp would be nice as I'd prefer a setup that the stock trans can cope with (if I wouldn't have to replace my header as well).
It's been a long time since I've look at what suppliers are available too.

So here is that current setup/limitations:
-Stock trans
-KG Trimning 4-2-1 header (Anyone know what hp these are good for?)
-2.5" mandrel bent exhaust
-MSnS
-RSI Stage 2 cyl head "peak flow of 221 cfm @28" on the intake and 181 cfm @ 28" on the exhaust"
-In addition to this rebuild I could use advise for selecting the best cam for this build, and I suspect I will need to replace the b230f intake manifold (what options are out there nowadays?).
-block is B23
 
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Best cam would probably be an A or K.

You'll need better and lighter valve train components to handle the higher rpms you'll likely need to wring out that kind of power.

A lightened and balanced crankshaft mated to a lightened flywheel will turn the peak power higher up the rev range, but will also lend to supporting higher rpms needed for high NA horsepower.

If you're building the block up, you might as well invest in lighter rods and higher compression pistons. It's all about the squeeze!

Speaking of squeeze, mill the head about 1/10th of an inch and go with a shorter belt. Escort belt supposedly works. Adjustable cam gear is a no-brainer.

Get a custom intake manifold to flow the air better and more evenly. If you're shooting for higher rpms, you'll run into efficiency issues at higher rpms.


That's about all I can think of at the moment.
 
Sounds like you already have a really good start. Doesn't sound like you really need much to get ~200hp out of that engine. Your head is almost as good as a 16v. Higher compression, better intake (or ITBs), and a good cam should get you there or close to it. I think a good cam would be worth investing in, rather than a factory grind. Even a K cam isn't really all that aggressive. Why don't you give RSI a call and see what they have to say about cams and compression ratio?

Lighter rods/pistons would be nice, but it's a large investment compared to the other things you can do. It's more of a nice-to-have rather than a need-to-have.
 
Cam:
A is just barely better than M.
VX is OK.
V15 is the best cam I've used. Good range and torque curve.
RSI cam is all top end. Super lumpy. Like a tractor at idle.
Can't comment on K, B or T...

Suggest springs matched to cam, i.e. only as stiff as they need to be and shimmed for proper height.

Don't forget Knox Motorsports. They did a nice job tweaking my head rebuild.
 
Tuesday said:
Best cam would probably be an A or K.
Click to expand...
Neither will be up to the task of 200hp NA.
You'll need better and lighter valve train components to handle the higher rpms you'll likely need to wring out that kind of power.
Click to expand...
Valvetrain upgrades are always necessary when attempting a substantial increase in power output without a substantial increase in displacement or forced induction.
A lightened and balanced crankshaft mated to a lightened flywheel will turn the peak power higher up the rev range, but will also lend to supporting higher rpms needed for high NA horsepower.
Click to expand...
No, a lightened crankshaft and flywheel will not move the peak power. It reduces the rotating mass allowing it to rev quicker and reducing the losses to slightly increase the peak HP number. In some cases it will allow you to rev higher, but it's going to make very little difference in the peak power or the RPM that it's produced.
If you're building the block up, you might as well invest in lighter rods and higher compression pistons. It's all about the squeeze!

Speaking of squeeze, mill the head about 1/10th of an inch and go with a shorter belt. Escort belt supposedly works. Adjustable cam gear is a no-brainer.
Click to expand...

For a real build you don't just "mill the head about 1/10th," you MEASURE, then calculate, then machine. There's not going to be that much room for error, and to preserve proper drivability and reliability it's best to not approximate the machine work.

Aside from that the OP already says he has an RSI head.

Get a custom intake manifold to flow the air better and more evenly. If you're shooting for higher rpms, you'll run into efficiency issues at higher rpms.


That's about all I can think of at the moment.
Click to expand...

ITB's or Webers would be a good way to go to increase intake flow for this kind of power output.

Poik said:
Sounds like you already have a really good start. Doesn't sound like you really need much to get ~200hp out of that engine. Your head is almost as good as a 16v. Higher compression, better intake (or ITBs), and a good cam should get you there or close to it. I think a good cam would be worth investing in, rather than a factory grind. Even a K cam isn't really all that aggressive. Why don't you give RSI a call and see what they have to say about cams and compression ratio?

Lighter rods/pistons would be nice, but it's a large investment compared to the other things you can do. It's more of a nice-to-have rather than a need-to-have.
Click to expand...

I don't think he's far off from his target. I would spend the money on a good cam and valvetrain, then a lot of time tuning it. Going with lightweight internals along with optimizing the compression will make a difference too.
 
what's the desired compression? Hopefully not stock. Maybe you can at least get the 10.3:1 pistons from the one year b23 with an automatic.

With your megasquirt and adjustable timing, I'd shoot higher with some rsi pistons but that's $600
 
I put a T in every NA I do. They're cheap, plentiful and do the job just fine.

But if you want more, try a V. They were good enough for Pentas.....they'll work for a soooper dooper DD.
 
15A said:
I put a T in every NA I do. They're cheap, plentiful and do the job just fine.

But if you want more, try a V. They were good enough for Pentas.....they'll work for a soooper dooper DD.
Click to expand...

How exactly is this person going to get 200-210hp with a cam that makes 180hp with a TURBO? How much compression is required? Nitromethane fueled?
 
MrBill said:
what's the desired compression? Hopefully not stock. Maybe you can at least get the 10.3:1 pistons from the one year b23 with an automatic.

With your megasquirt and adjustable timing, I'd shoot higher with some rsi pistons but that's $600
Click to expand...

That's one of the things I'm wondering about. I'm not sure what compression will be ideal. I already have 10:1. I'm not intending to use any OE factory piston. This would be affected by which cam I use if I have my facts straight (because it changes dynamic compression?).
 
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Chrisco said:
That's one of the things I'm wondering about. I'm not sure what compression will be ideal. I already have 10:1. I'm not intending to use any factory piston. This would be affected by which cam I use if I have my facts straight (because it changes dynamic compression?).
Click to expand...

You want to talk about a high powered n.a. B230?
Call now.. I have had some tea and i have some ciggies, but call now
Later I have things to do.
 
15A said:
Go relax. He wont get that HP from an NA regardless.
Click to expand...

So your excuse for giving bad advice is that I need to relax?:wtf:
The OP asked a serious question and has some of the parts already to put him well on the way to his desired power numbers, why give knowingly bad advice?
 
^^ It was sarcasm, pure and simple. Reread the OP's first post and you will get where 15A is coming from. 200-210 reliable HP from a B230? I seriously doubt it. The 8 valve head is a real restriction to obtaining that goal. If the OP asked what would it take to make his Volvo fly, would we all start picking wings and power plants to help him achieve his goal? Anyway, carry on. If he has the money and insists going down this path, I'm curious as to what he ends up with. 20+ HP, or an empty wallet and a bunch of broken parts.
 
I am actually working on this same thing, might be using my K cam or going with an rsi n/a cam.
I have the engine apart so the deck can get milled.

I am also shooting for the 200hp number but I know that is pushing it.
 
.
Chrisco said:
2manyturbos said:
^^ It was sarcasm, pure and simple. Reread the OP's first post and you will get where 15A is coming from. 200-210 reliable HP from a B230? I seriously doubt it. The 8 valve head is a real restriction to obtaining that goal. If the OP asked what would it take to make his Volvo fly, would we all start picking wings and power plants to help him achieve his goal? Anyway, carry on. If he has the money and insists going down this path, I'm curious as to what he ends up with. 20+ HP, or an empty wallet and a bunch of broken parts.
Click to expand...


So here is that current setup/limitations:
-Stock trans
-KG Trimning 4-2-1 header (Anyone know what hp these are good for?)
-2.5" mandrel bent exhaust
-MSnS
-RSI Stage 2 cyl head "peak flow of 221 cfm @28" on the intake and 181 cfm @ 28" on the exhaust"
-In addition to this rebuild I could use advise for selecting the best cam for this build, and I suspect I will need to replace the b230f intake manifold (what options are out there nowadays?).
-block is B23
Click to expand...
 
2manyturbos said:
^^ It was sarcasm, pure and simple. Reread the OP's first post and you will get where 15A is coming from. 200-210 reliable HP from a B230? I seriously doubt it. The 8 valve head is a real restriction to obtaining that goal. If the OP asked what would it take to make his Volvo fly, would we all start picking wings and power plants to help him achieve his goal? Anyway, carry on. If he has the money and insists going down this path, I'm curious as to what he ends up with. 20+ HP, or an empty wallet and a bunch of broken parts.
Click to expand...
Did you even read the first post in this thread? He has almost everything required to get there already. Just because you haven't had a 200hp B230 doesn't mean that it's impossible.
 
Poik said:
Did you even read the first post in this thread? He has almost everything required to get there already. Just because you haven't had a 200hp B230 doesn't mean that it's impossible.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. Proper bottom end, compression, cam and some tuning and it could happen.
 
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