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#1 | ||
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() Starting the spring thread that was requested.
I will edit it as we go, adding numbers and deleting extraneous comments. Please comment, and please offer to loan sets of springs if you remove KNOWN OE springs to change anything. I would also test any lowering or overload springs you can loan me. I'm at the south end of Delaware, and can meet somewhere else if we can work it out. Quotes from another thread: Quote:
And maybe the 120# fronts that were mentioned were GT or Diesel springs. I really wish I had the diesel springs I got rid of. Quote:
Done. At least, it's a start. Yesterday I tested 1992 wagon rears. They were a little off side to side. One was 97 pound/inch, one was 107. Looking for another set. I have another 240 sedan that I will test soon, and I will try to get these fronts tested. Had some issues with a brake line, and it's changeover day for the exploratory class. |
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#2 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() 1988 Hartford CT 244
Front springs 80 lb/in 449mm (17-5/8") free length 166mm overall Diameter 13.2mm (.520") wire diameter 5.5 free coils 11.5" installed height hanging 8.5" installed height sitting Rear 91 lb/in 415mm (16-3/8") free length 129mm overall Diameter 11.85mm (.466") wire diameter 7.5 free coils 15.25" installed height hanging 12.25" installed height sitting Last edited by mikep; 11-16-2016 at 11:18 AM.. |
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#3 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() 92 245
Front springs 79 and 80 lb/in 445mm (17-1/2") free length 167mm overall Diameter 13.6mm (.540") wire diameter 5.5 free coils ___ installed height Rear 97/107# 449mm (16-5/8") free length (will recheck) 129mm overall Diameter 13mm (.510") wire diameter 8 free coils ___ installed height Last edited by mikep; 10-05-2016 at 03:43 PM.. |
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#4 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() added numbers, separated into posts.
If there's an inch with fractions, it was a tape measure. If a decimal, it was a dial caliper. I scraped off the paint with a knife for the wire dia. I did not use math to get the rates. I used a scale and a dial indicator on a compressing fixture. When I have time, I will go to NASCAR-land with some springs to see how close my rig was. Last edited by mikep; 11-16-2016 at 11:19 AM.. |
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#5 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() Added installed data for the sedan. The guinea pig was a 1983 Canadian 244 with no carpet.
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#6 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland IN
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__________________
Trying to understand stupid people is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. |
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#7 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() old IPD sport black springs from Mike Rausch.
I will add pics later. Only measured one each. Front spring 137 lb/in 330mm (13") free length 6.5" overall Diameter 14.27mm (.562") wire diameter (paint rubbed through) 4-1/8 free coils ___ installed height Rear 148# 343mm (13.5"") free length 5" overall Diameter 12.7-12.8mm (.500-.505") wire diameter (varies, did not clean off paint) 6 free coils ___ installed height Should ride like **** with the 1.5:1 motion ratio squared in back. Rear vert rate would be 222lb/inch. Front you lose a little, so 130-ish. If I had that much rate out back I'd want at least 250 in front to keep it from pitching. |
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#8 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() Taking the IPD springs and the wagon springs to NASCAR-land for checking on Sunday. That way I will know how far off my rig is. I may also purchase a load cell to replace my freight scale.
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#9 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Swampscott, 01907
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![]() Thumbs up
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#10 |
Board Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Portland Or.
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![]() as a guy at the "selecting a spring rate for coil overs" point I await your results with baited breath. (the grossest type of breath.)
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#11 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() hit "post" too soon. hang on a minute..
I took 2 sets of springs to Drew for testing. Both have been tested on my home-made rig. 1992 245 springs, one of the rears was lower than the other, possible changed to a sedan spring. I took the higher of the two. Early (244?) IPD Sport Springs, borrowed from Mike Rausch. IPD rear, waiting to be molested. ![]() Waiting for the computer to get its head together. ![]() Stuff to make things stiffer on the fly. Everything gets tested, and springs stick around the longest of any NASCAR team part. ![]() IPD front on the right, fancy coilover stop spring on the left. That's what it rides on at high speed. ![]() Gross adjustment slider clamp bolts ![]() Talking smack to the program, telling it what it needs to do for us. ![]() You have to put in measuring blocks to let the machine measure the height of the retainer/spacer the spring will sit on. ![]() Like SO. ![]() But IF you forget, (and it seems someone did) and hit it with a load instead of clicking the right "test", this might happen: ![]() Test complete. But what does it mean? 150 lb/in for the rear, but wait. There's more! ![]() Avg. pressure, including harmonics and cell noise and ****. ![]() ![]() Next up, IPD front. ![]() Test #2 complete, with Test #1 graph behind it. 146 lb/in. Might as well call that another 150. ![]() Test #2 graph. ![]() Front 245 time. ![]() Poncy little 95 pounder. ![]() The low start is due to the imperfect tail in the seat. ![]() You could call this a 100 lb/in spring. ![]() Rear 245 time. ![]() ![]() 117# ![]() Front and rear 245 overlaid. ![]() ![]() ![]() IPD rear and stock wagon rear compared. ![]() IPD front and 245 front compared. ![]() Last edited by mikep; 05-10-2018 at 01:24 PM.. |
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#12 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() My first round of tests, I used wood to spread the load on my scale (an old shipping scale with springs inside, sheet steel housing, dial indicator).
Follow-up tests to compare my methods with Drews, I used a steel plate (old rail/tie connector) but with wood on top. Where I was off 10-15# before, this time I was much closer. I plan to buy a load cell to see if I can improve more. I will take 240 sedan springs and 740 wagon springs down next time, and any other springs I can get my hands on. |
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#13 |
Board Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Portland Or.
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![]() wow, actual data, this is great! thanks so much for all the schlepping.
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#14 |
50 shades of beige
![]() Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
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![]() Im surprised they are so even front to rear in rate.
__________________
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#15 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() The old ipds? Me too. They were probably unaware of motion ratio. Most of us were then.
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#16 |
Board Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Swampscott, 01907
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![]() Science, motherf'ers. That's what's up.
Thanks for this. |
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#17 |
50 shades of beige
![]() Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
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#18 |
Board Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: long island
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![]() i gave mike P a set of ipd 740 sedan springs. i am really curious to see what springs rates they're !
__________________
Parts thread http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...52#post5485352 Build thread http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=323975 |
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#19 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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#20 |
Happy playing the blues
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
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![]() Are the IPD springs you tested wagon version or sedan? I missed it if you specified. I was thinking they might be the wagon version looking at that rate.
Thanks for this Mike!
__________________
Dave, 1982 242 turbo. 338k miles. MVP coilovers and 3" exhaust. Flowed 405 with a V15. Cossie turbine housing with upgraded compressor housing. 90+, IPD remote oil filter. Some other goodness, too. Been lots of fun over 25 years. Restored in 2k. Now ready for a 2nd restoration. 1993 245 Classic, 430k miles, enem V15. IPD bars and chassis braces. Simons sport exhaust from Scandix. sbabbs ezk chip. Been a good road warrior. Genuine Volvo rebuilt leaky M47. ![]() |
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#21 | |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() Quote:
Probably going to take the stock 945 springs off when I head back down. |
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#22 |
Board Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Back in NC again...
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![]() [QUOTE=
Should ride like **** with the 1.5:1 motion ratio squared in back. Rear vert rate would be 222lb/inch. Front you lose a little, so 130-ish. If I had that much rate out back I'd want at least 250 in front to keep it from pitching.[/QUOTE] So I understand, it sounds like a car with old black IPD springs is undersprung at the front? Where are you testing these springs? I live in Mooresville right in the thick of Nascar ![]() I have a 1990 240 Wagon with black IPDs and Bilstein HDs and the ride is not great. |
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#23 | |
Board Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Antioch, CA
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![]() Quote:
![]() (Went to N.C. for a Fanuc class) Mike, it would be nice to have a link in this thread or maybe a sticky of your other spring information for our cars.
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#24 | ||
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() Quote:
Drew's work is where we did the graphs. I stay with Drew near lake norman when I'm there. I do a low-budget test here at work (high school auto tech shop) with a dial indicator and a scale. It comes pretty close. Quote:
I have some broken links in the stock car spring threads, and I haven't looked for towery's threads lately. He started using stock car springs in the rear, I stole his idea. He also did the pvc sleeves with coilover springs. If I have time after the seniors leave next week, I'll put in some links. Last edited by mikep; 08-27-2018 at 11:53 AM.. |
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#25 |
The MP
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
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![]() Still looking for loan or donation of stock 740 springs and any early stuff.
I’ll do WWD as well. Going to Charlotte again at the end of June. |
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